TTC: St. Clair Streetcar Right Of Way

[W. K. Lis]

And as more people come, they'll clog up a line that's as slow as any other streetcar route.

Except that the new low-floor streetcars will have all door boardings, so less crowding on the larger streetcars at the front door. And with the right-of-way, less single-occupant vehicles to get in the way of the streetcars.

 

[Jaye101]

Too bad St Clair won't get those until 2017. Which makes no sense to me since St. Clair is the second busiest route per KM on the streetcar network. It's a pity.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Unless the current fleet of ALRV's is scraped before the CLRV's. They could move the ALRV's up to St. Clair first before they start scrapping them. I read that the ALRV's may be scrapped before the CLRV's, though I would prefer to see that keep some ALRV's that are in good condition until the numbers of LFLRV come on board.

 

[nfitz]

Too bad St Clair won't get those until 2017. Which makes no sense to me since St. Clair is the second busiest route per KM on the streetcar network. It's a pity.

Someone has to be first, and someone has to be last. I thought King and Spadina were both ahead of St. Clair, at least in rush-hour. And if you look at the central section of Queen, it's busier than anything on St. Clair - but the overall average is warped as the service goes out to the Mississauga border.

The key issue surely should be how the service is working. Spadina is completely overloaded, with the streetcars themselves delaying each other with the lights and platform availability. King is desperate for more AM service. St. Clair is well-used, but I don't think it's seeing the same congestion issues that plague King and Spadina. But even then, King isn't expecting the new cars until 2016.

 

[doady]

Yeah, King and Queen go thru downtown and have no ROW, so more capacity and reliability issues. King and Queen need the new light rail vehicles more.

I hope with larger light rail vehicles and all-door boardings they will remove stops and make all stops fixed. Frequent stops and requests would make no sense.

 

[nfitz]

I hope with larger light rail vehicles and all-door boardings they will remove stops and make all stops fixed. Frequent stops and requests would make no sense.

I hope they remove a few stops; I doubt that many though. Not sure what you mean by fixed though - the TTC request stop program has never applied to streetcars.

 

[doady]

I hope they remove a few stops; I doubt that many though. Not sure what you mean by fixed though - the TTC request stop program has never applied to streetcars.

Really? That's strange. There's always people getting on/off the streetcar stops I use so I never really paid attention.

 

[DSC]

Really? That's strange. There's always people getting on/off the streetcar stops I use so I never really paid attention.

There are certainly stops that should be looked at, examples would be King at Victoria going east (very close to King subway station) and the Sunday-only stop on College westbound opposite the old Toronto General Hospital (which was probably heavily used when it was in front of the TGH main entrance and Sunday was the main visiting day.) There is clearly a balance needed between stops that are really too close together and those that are far apart and I rather doubt that the TTC ever actually evaluates usage as the City changes.

 

[nfitz]

Really? That's strange. There's always people getting on/off the streetcar stops I use so I never really paid attention.

The request stop program is for between stops. Not sure what your meaning here.

Hopefully the Sunday stops can all be removed. Don't really see the point of them these days; particularly at 1 AM on Saturday night.

 

[ShonTron]

Sunday stops on St. Clair and Roncesvalles were removed as part of their reconstructions. The TTC is glacially moving in that direction.

 

[doady]

The request stop program is for between stops. Not sure what your meaning here.

I meant that I thought the TTC streetcars stop based on passenger demand. What I was trying to say in my original post was that streetcars should have scheduled stops only like the subway and GO Train and the total number of stops should be reduced. With a smaller number of LRVs with much higher capacity and all-door boarding, I don't think it makes sense to have stops so close together and stopping based on demand like a bus. Some of picture I see of the new LRV interior have buttons to request stop like a bus, so it is not encouraging.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Isn't this how our LRTs will operate?

 

[nfitz]

With a smaller number of LRVs with much higher capacity and all-door boarding, I don't think it makes sense to have stops so close together and stopping based on demand like a bus. Some of picture I see of the new LRV interior have buttons to request stop like a bus, so it is not encouraging.

Can you imagine what the service would be like at 4 AM if it stopped at every stop? It only stops at about 10% or less of stops now at those hours. I don't think this would happen, even if you took away 50% of the stops, which I don't think would happen.

 

[CDL.TO]

I agree that's a bad idea. I've been on streetcars late at night which have rolled past even Yonge St without stopping (because there was no one wanting to get on or off).

Many of the modern LRT systems I have used still have stop requests. If those higher-speed independent-ROW systems still have stop requests, the the legacy TTC system, which is still fundamentally a local transit service, should certainly keep it.

The TTC needs to actually study the question of stop spacing. Find an appropriate distance and apply it equally across the system (with a justified exceptions as needed). As is, stop spacing isn't consistent. Why does the 505 stop at Bellwoods Ave eastbound only? Why does the 504 stop at Victoria westbound only? Why when heading westbound between University and Spadina does College have 2 stops, Dundas have 3 stops, and Queen have 4 stops?

 

[car4041]

Why does the 504 stop at Victoria westbound only?

I totally agree with your general point, but that one does kinda make sense -- westbound Victoria is well-used by people escaping to the subway when traffic is moving slowly towards Yonge.

Find an appropriate distance and apply it equally across the system (with a justified exceptions as needed)

An additional constraint that makes it hard to apply a uniform spacing is that stops should optimally be placed at intersections with traffic signals or crosswalks (as is currently usually the case). There are cases where it might seem logical to replace two existing stops with a new one in between, but if the two existing stops are at traffic signals and the new one in between is not, then the result could actually be more stopping (i.e. at the two red lights and at the stop in between).