Abdullah77
New Member
TTC will maintain Metrolinx-owned infrastructure on YNSE and SSE.
From Transit Network Expansion Update report to the board, Nov 2025.
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Finch West Line 6 LRT
- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
From Transit Network Expansion Update report to the board, Nov 2025.
hw621
Senior Member
The speed we build transit in Toronto, we would have to wait 10 more years if this line had been a subway. But hey, the ridership may have been there by then...Who knows lol
tkamb
New Member
Honolulu with zero experience can still run their metro system pretty well, they just pay more for the expertise. Hitachi gladly send someone for a Hawaii working holiday.
It appars Metorlinx's model is a systematic failure on, rattle with lawsuits, just created a perfect storm. Combining the worst of private and public sector, with no accountability.
Line 6 we clearly see lack of coordination. TTC/City is sometime clueless but taking all the blame. With Line 5 and Ontario Line are more technically complicated, there's no positive sign this PPP model will work.
If ON Gov still want PPP, TTC might as well just "franchised" its name out. Only do the fare collection, hand the operation and maintenance over to private. Really, it may end up better like Waterloo. Or TTC should take back both operation and maintenance.
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TRONto
Active Member
TTC built fine on their own in the past. The most recent "debacles" of rebuilding St Clair to a ROW and building the YUS extension to Vaughan had political interference all over them. As a result of the political interference, the building of these projects were deemed a failure and we were told the private sector would do better and here we are with Line 5 +6.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
Aside from Signal priority how could the TTC do better for St Clair?
The speeds now are LOWER than with mixed traffic
Steve X
Senior Member
When two of the dumbest organizations got together to build a transit line, the line gets the cons from both organizations.
TTC staffs don't even know what other cities are doing around the world, nor do they want to know. They just keep doing it their way.
Instead of finding new innovate ways to improve operation, they just collect paycheques and call it a day. The 510 Spadina runs slower than the 77 Spadina bus it replaced at opening in 1997 and still do today. This Line 6 BS is no new discovery. Just history repeating itself and if that continues to happen, we can all expect Line 6 operating slower than the 36 Finch West bus it replaced 20 years down the road.
duty free
Active Member
How did you come up with these numbers? Are you taking 30 years of operating costs & maintenance into consideration? Are you assuming the whole line would be buried? I don't think burying Line 6 was ever realistic.
3 options.
1. BRT for $30 million/km
2. LRT for $350 million/km
3. Elevated Light Metro for $700 million/km
Those are all very rough estimates, however none of the above options would have been anywhere near as expensive as your estimate. Maybe if they buried the whole line, but again why would anyone build a metro line like that on Finch?
I'll let others decide what they think was the best value for their tax dollars.
duty free
Active Member
27 stops for 7 km. Start by cutting 50% of the stops.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
I don't think there is a single pro-subway poster on UrbanToronto that has advocated for a subway along Finch.
I think most would rather have extended the Sheppard line westward beyond Sheppard West Station and build a BRT along Finch.
I think most would rather have extended the Sheppard line westward beyond Sheppard West Station and build a BRT along Finch.
ThenWhat
Active Member
Quote from M. Lindsay's post:
"... we decided with the TTC to keep bus service ready in parallel for this ramp up phase ..."
Strange for this information to come from Metrolinx, not from TTC. Or was there another communication about this from TTC, which I missed? Not quite sure what "bus service ready" means. As of today, TTC maps and schedules do not show any bus running in parallel with Line 6. So is there a bus service there, or are only buses ready in case they are needed?
Steve X
Senior Member
Cause the TTC doesn’t have anyone working in the communication department.
What’s more frustrating is the streetcars are able to keep up in this weather while ML can’t.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
Doesn't the Finch West LRT use more complex switches compared to the TTC's streetcars?
jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
The problem isn't with the complexity of the switches. (Which yes Line 6 uses more complex switches and control systems). The problem lies with the switch heaters not being tuned right to keep the sensors and mechanical parts clear of snow and ice. Unlike the single point switches of the legacy streetcar system, the switches on Line 6 aren't easy to move into position manually, so having the switch heaters properly working is highly important. Line 5 shouldn't have nearly the same amount of problems on the surface section because Crosslinx decided to not embed the switches and so they use forced-air natural gas heaters rather than the electric radiant heaters used on Line 6.
urbanclient
Active Member
Double point or double blade switches are generally considered more reliable for winter operations than the antiquated single point switches on the streetcar network. Leave it to Metrolinx and Co. to somehow flip this though. We live in bizarro world in almost every sense of the word. Transit mode choice for past and upcoming Metrolinx projects. Rolling stock choice and platform length underbuilt for the future. Astronomical overbuilding in other areas @lastcommodore please post what you know about Line 6 vs. T9 here. The list goes on.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
30 minutes flat is unbelievable. My trips ranged from 49 to 53 minutes. I don't see how a trip could be that fast given the TTC's speed restrictions are programmed in the LRV. If the train exceeds the programmed speed limit, the emergency brakes come on. The one exception I noticed is that some intersections are programmed as 35 km/h, but operators slow to 25 at all intersections regardless of whether they're programmed as 25 or 35. So driving 35 instead of 25 could be one way your operator saved some time. But that alone wouldn't save 15-20 minutes compared to the trips the rest of us experienced.
This massive travel time difference could potentially support my theory that the Transit Signal Priority is not calibrated correctly. If they designed the TSP based on the original travel times and then the TTC came in later with their 25 km/h limits, then LRVs will often just miss the green light that TSP intended them to use, and have to sit through the entire red light duration. A poorly calibrated TSP system isn't just worse than a well-calibrated system, it can actually be even worse than not having TSP at all. At least with no TSP, trams will only need to wait through half the red light duration on average. If TSP is consistently underestimating the LRT travel times, they will frequently need to wait through the entire red duration.