Toronto Picasso Condos | 128.62m | 39s | Mattamy Homes | Teeple Architects

Mike in TO said:
So there are a variety of potential scenarios:

a) applicant modifies the proposal based on some of the concerns outlined by the planning department and resubmits a modified proposal;
b) applicant hopes that the political decision will be different then the recommendations of the planning department (this happens all the time - although typically the reverse scenario where the planning department recommends approval and the local councilor votes against a proposal based on political pressure from ratepayers groups or an anti-development attitude)
c) applicant appeals to the OMB
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Scenario B appears to be the winner:

Committee Recommendations
The Toronto and East York Community Council recommends that:
1. City Council approve the application for rezoning of 306-322 Richmond Street West.

2. The proposed Zoning By-law and Section 37 agreement shall:

a. secure an appropriate financial contribution to community benefits within Ward20;
b. secure architectural plans, elevations and landscaping including 1:50 elevations to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner, and require the owner, in conjunction with each Site Plan Application, to submit 1:50 scale drawings in conformity with this requirement;
c. secure 10% of the proposed residential dwelling units as 3-bedroom units and/or have knock-out panels to enable the conversion;
d. prohibit an entertainment facility-nightclub use on the lot, as defined by By-law 301-2006; and
e. address such additional technical issues that may be identified by commenting divisions.

3. The Section 37 Agreement be executed prior to the City Council's passage of the Zoning By-law.


You can read all about it here:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2009/te/decisions/2009-01-13-te22-dd.pdf
 
Sales will depend on the pricing. No one in their right mind should pony up more than $400 a sq. ft. for a condo right now, because you'll be able to buy a place for about that in a year or two in the King and Spadina area. I think they will have a hell of a time moving units, just like every other condo in sales right now. That's the unfortunate reality of real estate in North America right now.
 
Therion said:
No one in their right mind should pony up more than $400 a sq. ft. for a condo right now, because you'll be able to buy a place for about that in a year or two in the King and Spadina area. I think they will have a hell of a time moving units, just like every other condo in sales right now. That's the unfortunate reality of real estate in North America right now.
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If your thinking that this market is going to crash or stay the same for next couple of years you may be still be waiting to buy a condo in 10 years.The Canadian condo market is very different from the U.S.Toronto is a unique city to invest probably second only to NewYork in North America.
i am sure there will be lots of opportunities in the future to buy condos at that price range up in Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie.
 
If you're thinking speculators from far and wide haven't pushed demand far past over supply in downtown Toronto than you're dreaming. The only difference between the rampant speculation of 1992 and now are interest rates. Whether our rental market can afford all these $400+ per square foot shoeboxes or the corporate suites market can maintain pace with all the hotel construction is anyone's guess. Them stats don't look good though. I can imagine Bay Street's "executive" student residences clearing out at the first hint of a bust as well.
 
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Automation Gallery said:
If your thinking that this market is going to crash or stay the same for next couple of years you may be still be waiting to buy a condo in 10 years.The Canadian condo market is very different from the U.S.Toronto is a unique city to invest probably second only to NewYork in North America.
i am sure there will be lots of opportunities in the future to buy condos at that price range up in Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie.
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Nobody said crash, but it's got to come down.....no doubt about it.

Toronto isn't unique at all. Stop dreaming. And if you're going to compare it to New York fine, but New York prices are coming down now too. A little later than the rest of the country, but it's happened. And most New York real estate experts see it getting worse.

The fact of the matter is that there are more units being constructed today that ever. Overly optimistic developers pushed through projects and got caught at the top of the real estate cycle. Now they're busy building and selling these condo's on the way down. Sales are down significantly. If you look on the MLS, there are relatively affordable and attractive suites that have been sitting there for 4 or 5 months now. Suites that would have been sold in days 18 months ago.

So with little demand to buy up the buildings already constructed, what's going to happen when all of these buildings in construction are complete? Some developers are lucky and have gotten a lot of pre-sales, but many are only 50% sold. Not to mention when prices come down you may see a lot of people backing out of their deals and giving up their down payments. A family friend has already done with with a house in Whitby.

Now also keep in mind a stat many of us saw in regard to owner occupied vs. investor purchases. When all these "investors" are stuck and can't even get their suites rented, they're going to flood the market with properties which will now compete with the inventory the developers still have (remember, some buildings only 50% sold). And when the developers can't unload their inventory to pay off creditors, they'll bring prices down. 400/SF seems like a good guess for the King & Spadina area.
 
Bentley said:
Nobody said crash, but it's got to come down.....no doubt about it.

Toronto isn't unique at all. Stop dreaming. And if you're going to compare it to New York fine, but New York prices are coming down now too. A little later than the rest of the country, but it's happened. And most New York real estate experts see it getting worse.
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New York City condo prices were unrealistic compared to Toronto anyways.I can see that happening.Something that sells for $300.000 in Toronto would cost you $500.000 and up,plus a 2 bedroom in Manhattan rents for over $2000 a month which is twice as much of what you can get in Toronto.At the moment European investors with the strong Euro (1 Euro-$1.65CDN)are looking at Canada as the country of choice with prices unheard of compared to most major European and Asian cities. So stop dreaming if you think that you will be finding Toronto condos at rock bottom prices and cheap rental properties.
 
Automation Gallery said:
New York City condo prices were unrealistic compared to Toronto anyways. I can see that happening. Something that sells for $300.000 in Toronto would cost you $500.000 and up, .
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At $500 PSF for the 'average' newer condo building in TO, you believe that is realistic or reasonable?
NYC can or could support the atrocious $1000 PSF because of loose credit/money and Wall Street compensation in the 6/7 figures range.
NYC is feeling the effects of the financial crisis now because alot of the bonuses are gone.
Did you know that RE prices in Harlem (sorry if I got the area wrong) which also appreciated significantly b/c of it's location to dt NYC, renovated brownstones, etc have lost 25% of their value?


plus a 2 bedroom in Manhattan rents for over $2000 a month which is twice as much of what you can get in Toronto.
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I would like to know where in dt TO, you can rent 2 bedroom unit for $1000?!??! [unless it was under 500 SF, but then I wouldn't truly classify it as 2 bedroom] A realistic minimum of 750 SF will cost at least $1600/m.



At the moment European investors with the strong Euro (1 Euro-$1.65CDN)are looking at Canada as the country of choice with prices unheard of compared to most major European and Asian cities. So stop dreaming if you think that you will be finding Toronto condos at rock bottom prices and cheap rental properties.
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If European investors are looking for RE bargains, there are more opportunities in the USA than Canada, given our prices are higher compared to the USA; and our major cities are only TO, MTL, Vancouver, Calgary or Edmonton vs the state of California, state of Florida, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Chicago, etc.
 
Automation Gallery said:
New York City condo prices were unrealistic compared to Toronto anyways.I can see that happening.Something that sells for $300.000 in Toronto would cost you $500.000 and up,plus a 2 bedroom in Manhattan rents for over $2000 a month which is twice as much of what you can get in Toronto.At the moment European investors with the strong Euro (1 Euro-$1.65CDN)are looking at Canada as the country of choice with prices unheard of compared to most major European and Asian cities. So stop dreaming if you think that you will be finding Toronto condos at rock bottom prices and cheap rental properties.
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lol, I'm sorry but I'm being realistic. Sounds like you might be the one dreaming. Everything you're saying might have applied 18 months ago. Not today.

European investors aren't buying condos like they were. And they're certainly not coming over here to buy them, when their own real estate prices have dropped so significantly in the past year.

Fact of the matter is that there is an over supply currently, which is getting worse by the day as new units and new buildings come on tap. Employment numbers are down and will get worse, larger down payments are required which limits the number of potential buyers out there, and the one who can afford the down payments are scared to tie up capital. There is no hurry to buy anything so units will continue to just sit idle. And basic supply and demand principles dictate that when inventory can't sell, prices drop.

As far as Manhattan goes, average salaries of people living in Manhattan are much higher than those in Toronto. Also the fact that it's an island creates a unique scenario, in that there is only so much land to build on. No parking lots left to build skyscrapers on, etc. And in addition, New York is still the financial capital of the world. It should not be compared to Toronto in any way shape or form.

Anyway, if you don't think prices are going to drop then I assume you've bought up a bunch of units for yourself to reap the blissful rewards of perpetually increasing prices?
 
This project won't open for sales under current market conditions. The developer will most likely bide their time for the next several months and work behind the scenes on generating a market launch plan potentially later this year if conditions start to improve.

Those wearing rose coloured glasses clearly aren't accurately aware of the actual situation right now with respect to the condo market in Toronto.
 
Mike in TO said:
Those wearing rose coloured glasses clearly aren't accurately aware of the actual situation right now with respect to the condo market in Toronto.
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dcr0310l1.jpg
 
Therion said:
Sales will depend on the pricing. No one in their right mind should pony up more than $400 a sq. ft. for a condo right now, because you'll be able to buy a place for about that in a year or two in the King and Spadina area. I think they will have a hell of a time moving units, just like every other condo in sales right now. That's the unfortunate reality of real estate in North America right now.
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According to Brad J.Lamb Reality Inc. Toronto condo pricing has hit the economic low and consumer confidence is beginning to return to the market.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv.../BNStory/RealEstate/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail
 
^You do realize it is in Lamb's best interest to say that. The guy has a huge amount of inventory to push in a limited timeframe.
 
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