smallspy
Senior Member
There have been several internal studies by multiple organizations about this, yes.
Dan
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Hamilton-Niagara passenger rail enhancements
- Thread starter Adjei
- Start date
Dan
just east of the creek
Senior Member
I understand the word 'internal' but given that, have we had any insider information previously (whose postings I cannot find in my search). This junction, quietly seems to be a significant barrier to more frequent service to Hamilton and points beyond with some zip to the service! (Yes buses do qualify but the bus travels at the same 403 /QEW speeds I do, and far too often, that is not very rapid at all)
just east of the creek
Senior Member
This quote dating from a UT article of Jan 10, 2017 (Andrew Clark) and lifted from an article detailing twinning the Desjardins Canal Bridge seems to reflect the challenge of Bayview.
"coupled with reconfiguration of the Bayview Junction—which Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig once called "the most complex corner of railway infrastructure in Canada".........
"coupled with reconfiguration of the Bayview Junction—which Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig once called "the most complex corner of railway infrastructure in Canada".........
Sauga89
Active Member
Just copying this over from the GO service thread.
Here is the link to the Youtube video where this was presented to the Niagara regional council. The presenter says CN is open to the possibility of selling the track.
Also, these slides are not the full discussion. The council spent an hour and twenty minutes in non-public discussion about the Grimsby GO station development prior to this public presentation. The public presentation only took 40 minutes.
Of note, they are looking at getting a private developer to pay for the Beamsville/Lincoln station, similar to Woodbine GO.
Plus, it sounds like CN shot down the idea of a Grimsby station on the north side of the tracks, and the province didn't want to budget for a pedestrian tunnel underneath the tracks, so the region pivoted to a south side station. The region wants an exemption to skip the TPAP process for Grimsby GO.
Northern Light
Superstar
Let me bring select slides forward for the click averse:
Below, a Before/After of the now renovated Niagara Station. Someone will have to share w/the group what they did here other than cover the terrazzo floor:
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Side note, the timing of this amuses me. I have involved myself in this.
Attachments
crs1026
Superstar
It's curious how Niagara Region is having to do so much advocacy to get noticed by the Province. Last I checked, those are mostly Conservative ridings.
The Province seems much more responsive to roadbuilding thoughts down that way.
Eliminate the T'PAP to speed up the project..... and then have Metrolinx build it? The TPAP is not the source of the delay.
Beyond Grimsby, it bothers me how Ford's "cut red tape" thrust speads this thinking..... T'PAPs are a pretty expeditious process, and serve very useful needs - how else does a proponent document a proposal in sufficient detail to attract constructive commentary and criticism?
- Paul
The Province seems much more responsive to roadbuilding thoughts down that way.
Eliminate the T'PAP to speed up the project..... and then have Metrolinx build it? The TPAP is not the source of the delay.
Beyond Grimsby, it bothers me how Ford's "cut red tape" thrust speads this thinking..... T'PAPs are a pretty expeditious process, and serve very useful needs - how else does a proponent document a proposal in sufficient detail to attract constructive commentary and criticism?
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
The important order of operations here is purchasing the corridor from CN, number 1, 2 and 3.
That immediately allows expansion to 9 runs daily, and that not only improves convenience and the business case for new stations, it would markedly, if temporarily reduce the crowding issues on select weekend runs.
I would not consider added stations until you have the corridor ownership and preferably until sufficient improvements in travel time have been obtained to at the very least, fully offset the time impacts from an additional stop.
That immediately allows expansion to 9 runs daily, and that not only improves convenience and the business case for new stations, it would markedly, if temporarily reduce the crowding issues on select weekend runs.
I would not consider added stations until you have the corridor ownership and preferably until sufficient improvements in travel time have been obtained to at the very least, fully offset the time impacts from an additional stop.
crs1026
Superstar
Indeed.
Note to any lurking journalists who attend station ribbon cutting events: The most important question to ask at these events is, "When will the tracks be ready?"
Somehow stations get all the attention, I guess because they are faster to build, provide good visuals, are in a confined location, and are easily identifiable by the Average Voter in that community as "Something In It For Me". Track and signal work tends to happen invisibly (except where it intrudes on local neighbours, who are more likely to object than heap praise on the builders), have large price tags that no one can relate to, and doesn't produce a discrete structure that officials can point to with pride. But until the tracks are ready.... it's all window dressing.
- Paul
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
It’s only Niagara West that’s PC, the rest are NDP. Weirdly, NDP vote share increased last election in some ridings.
rbt
Senior Member
Niagara Falls, Niagara Centre, and St. Cath all went NDP. Niagara West is Sam Oosterhof, and they're about as far from being a party insider as you can get.
rbt
Senior Member
Niagara Falls, Niagara Centre, and St. Cath all went NDP.
Niagara West is Sam Oosterhof, and they're about as far from being a party insider as you can get. He's stayed out of the press lately but caused a bunch of issues in Ford's earlier terms.
It would be a source of delay if you know the TPAP will identify something problematic.
Sauga89
Active Member
Interestingly, one councillor asked if the region could buy the line instead of relying on the province (assuming CN is actually willing to sell). The answer was that the cost of the line would be hundreds of millions of dollars.
The region has an annual budget of $540 million. I'm not sure what price CN would ask for, but the regional staff seem to think the price would be beyond the region's ability/willingness to pay, or else they must think the province very likely to buy the line.
They had $2.8 million to spend. From the presentation, they re-did the roof, "refreshed station systems" (heating or A/C perhaps?) and touched up the interior a bit.
Northern Light
Superstar
I have a very good idea of the price, which I don't suppose I should share, except to say, yes, it would be a large number to the region, but nothingburger to the province.
It wouldn't be out of reach for the region, but would likely require debt/amortization. That said, they just aren't the logical buyer.
robmausser
Senior Member
It does seem that for whatever reason, the current PC's or whoever is pulling the strings at Metrolinx are less interested in buying track from CN and others than when the McGuinty/Wynne government was in charge.
Back then they would buy up track because it was a tuesday.
I was actually pissed MX didnt buy the Orangeville Line for potential future use. I'm pissed they didnt buy the GEXR to London before that abysmal train 'pilot project'
During the previous administration I am pretty certain they would have done both.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Metrolinx's view of the OBRY was essentially "we don't need it before 2051 so we won't buy it now". Huge failure of their planning team who had zero foresight, and didn't even raise their hand to tell their political masters that buying it was a good idea.