Ottawa Transit Developments

[ownthesky]

I think many are missing a critical point: internet transit enthusiasts that post about buses and trains in their free time are way more likely to take a bus to the airport than the average person. Heck you can see this in action at Pearson: for almost all of its history, a large international airport had pretty abysmal transit options. To be blunt, for working professionals in Canadian cities, taking a bus to the airport is viewed as the option for poor people and would not be their first choice. If a train gets more people out of taxis and private vehicles, it doesn’t matter if a train takes a couple minutes longer than a bus, that calculus simply isn’t that relevant compared to other subjective choices (ex class, comfort, ability to accommodate baggage, etc).

 

[bearcat]

I think many are missing a critical point: internet transit enthusiasts that post about buses and trains in their free time are way more likely to take a bus to the airport than the average person. You can see this in action at Pearson: for almost all of its history,
a large international airport had pretty abysmal transit options. To be blunt, for working professionals in Canadian cities, taking a bus to the airport is viewed as the option for poor people and would not be their first choice. If a train gets more people out of taxis and private vehicles, it doesn’t matter if a train takes a couple minutes longer, that calculus simply isn’t that relevant compared to other subjective choices (ex class, comfort, ability to accommodate baggage, etc).

Is the primary group of people using the Ottawa airport working professionals? I genuinely don't know.

Pearson still has an express bus to the subway serving it despite the UPX opening. And.people still take it.

 

[Bojaxs]

it doesn’t matter if a train takes a couple minutes longer than a bus,

In the previous page, @lrt's friend suggested that the bus was 15-20 minutes faster than the train. If true, than we're talking more than just a couple minutes.

Working professionals will more than likely take a taxi if it's faster than the train.

 

[CapitalSeven]

OC's own trip planner shows the bus as being faster, and in some cases you have to trick it to get it to show you the train options. But they also admit that their bus routes are not very reliable and the faster bus connection might not work out in reality. The train is pretty reliable even if it's not fast.

As to who rides it, I think people with options will give transit a chance if the timing works out. However the "last mile" factor is also an issue. Most of OC's so-called frequent routes are only twice an hour after six o'clock. So if you need a bus connection you could be waiting at a bus stop with luggage for 29 minutes. So do you take the train and play bus lottery? Because even if the apps tell you that your bus connection is going to be say 10 minutes, we all know how reliable those routes are. Or do you take the train and then maybe call an Uber if the bus is not going to be there? Or just hop in a cab at the airport because you're impatient and can afford it?

 

[reaperexpress]

To be blunt, for working professionals in Canadian cities, taking a bus to the airport is viewed as the option for poor people and would not be their first choice. If a train gets more people out of taxis and private vehicles, it doesn’t matter if a train takes a couple minutes longer than a bus, that calculus simply isn’t that relevant compared to other subjective choices (ex class, comfort, ability to accommodate baggage, etc).

Any option that takes three times the time of driving will be viewed as an option for poor people. Doesn't matter if it's got steel wheels or rubber tires on.

And if you think the difference is just "a couple minutes" you really have not been paying attention. If you want to talk about baggage and comfort, how does transferring between three different vehicles fit into that?

 

[ownthesky]

Is the primary group of people using the Ottawa airport working professionals? I genuinely don't know.

Pearson still has an express bus to the subway serving it despite the UPX opening. And.people still take it.

I’ve taken the GO bus from Hamilton quite a few times to Pearson, but the experience actually kind of sucks compared to taking the Lakeshore GO train and a Streetcar to Billy Bishop, which I’ve done a lot for contracts out East. I’m fully convinced someone will steal my luggage from a GO bus over a long enough period, for example, and the bus is quite packed and uncomfortable for a tall person. Looking at videos of the old 97 trip, it looks like the same poor experience to me.

Just offering a perspective I didn’t see broached - crunching the numbers with time is totally valid, but missing a lot of the story.

 

[ownthesky]

Any option that takes three times the time of driving will be viewed as an option for poor people. Doesn't matter if it's got steel wheels or rubber tires on.

And if you think the difference is just "a couple minutes" you really have not been paying attention. If you want to talk about baggage and comfort, how does transferring between three different vehicles fit into that?

Considering the amount of modern airport BS that involves standing around, walking a bit with your bags, stopping with your bag, and walking again… I think you’re really overplaying the inconvenience of these transfers given they both involve rolling your bag a few metres. Taking your luggage on a bus is a whole other magnitude of suck compared to a train.

I’m not disagreeing that time and transfers matter, but I think it’s possible folks might have a blindspot for how people view a bus outside of Internet Transitguyland!

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Not a fan of this mentality. Speed is king. When more people realise how slow the train is, they'll simply opt to spend a little more $$$ and take an Uber to & from the airport instead. Ridership will suffer. So much for all that extra capacity.

Transit needs to compete with driving. Respect the rider's time. Time is money. None of this "suck it up, and just be grateful we have a train" nonsense.

What good is a train if it's too slow?

You misunderstand. The airport line (line 4) I'm in total agreement. It's very slow. But don't judge the entire expansion on the silly airport connection

I'm talking Line 2. From the station I get on at (South Keys, 1) it's consistently 34 minutes by train, 27-35 minutes by bus, and 20 minutes by car, but add 5-15 minutes to allow for traffic and time to find parking. That's competitive for all 3. (Actually, by bike is competitive too, and an option I do in the summer)

The airport is not competitive to downtown. Its 57 minutes by train, 45 by bus, and 20 by car

 

[smallspy]

Not a fan of this mentality. Speed is king. When more people realise how slow the train is, they'll simply opt to spend a little more $$$ and take an Uber to & from the airport instead. Ridership will suffer. So much for all that extra capacity.

Transit needs to compete with driving. Respect the rider's time. Time is money. None of this "suck it up, and just be grateful we have a train" nonsense.

What good is a train if it's too slow?

If speed truly was king, than everyone would be driving everywhere. And for those that prioritize that, they do.

However your experiences and priorities are not the same as everyone else's. You would do well to remember that.

Dan

 

[Mihairokov]

Is the primary group of people using the Ottawa airport working professionals? I genuinely don't know.

Yes, it revolves around government. Ottawa's airport is primarily working professionals flying to and from Toronto and elsewhere. You would expect it to be busy at X time and the airport will be dead, and then expect it to be dead at X time and it's overly busy. It's a great airport but it can be strange sometimes.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Yes, it revolves around government. Ottawa's airport is primarily working professionals flying to and from Toronto and elsewhere. You would expect it to be busy at X time and the airport will be dead, and then expect it to be dead at X time and it's overly busy. It's a great airport but it can be strange sometimes.

With Porter now turning it into an official hub, traffic might increase, but it's a fairly small airport for the relative size and importance of Ottawa. But with YUL less than 2 hours away by car it's hard to see it getting much busier.

On the otherhand it's also a blessing, as it's a pleasant airport experience because it's far less hectic than YUL or Pearson

 

[Bojaxs]

If speed truly was king, than everyone would be driving everywhere. And for those that prioritize that, they do.

However your experiences and priorities are not the same as everyone else's. You would do well to remember that.

Dan

Obviously transit isn't always going to be able to keep up with driving. But nonetheless, the goal should be trying to close the gap between riding transit and driving.

and 20 minutes by car, but add 5-15 minutes to allow for traffic and time to find parking.

Parking isn't an issue if you take a taxi or ride share.

If speed truly was king, than everyone would be driving everywhere. And for those that prioritize that, they do.

However your experiences and priorities are not the same as everyone else's. You would do well to remember that.

Dan

The most valuable thing we have in this world is "time". Faster transit gives us more "time". It will entice more people to take transit. People who fail to grasp this basic concept should not be allowed to design and plan transit projects.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

.Parking isn't an issue if you take a taxi or ride share.

For commuting? I'm not spending $40/day to save 10 minutes....I wasn't talking about going from the airport on the occasional trip. But to each his own I guess

And the 20 minutes is in no traffic. In rush hour is 30-40

 

[bearcat]

If speed truly was king, than everyone would be driving everywhere. And for those that prioritize that, they do.

However your experiences and priorities are not the same as everyone else's. You would do well to remember that.

Dan

Sure, not everyone has time as their main priority, but @Bojaxs is not alone here. For me personally a large reason I would pick driving over transit is if driving is faster. The main reason I mostly cycle downtown Toronto is because it's faster than both driving and transit. I think it's important not to downplay the role time spent travelling has on picking the mode of travel. Yes, it's not the only factor, but I think it matters to a lot of people. Of course I could be totally wrong here.

P.S. In the airport example here, I would 100% take the bus if it's 15-20 minutes faster (and has one fewer transfer).

 

[ARG1]

If speed truly was king, than everyone would be driving everywhere. And for those that prioritize that, they do.

However your experiences and priorities are not the same as everyone else's. You would do well to remember that.

Dan

I think its fair to state that "Speed is King" != "Speed is the only factor that matters". And ye, I think its fair to state that the vast majority of the population (at least in NA) does prefer to drive due to our usually piss poor transit options. Obviously the issue in major areas like city downtowns is that driving is either not fast due either needing to spend a large amount of time finding parking and then walking from the parking to your destination, or even simply needing to contend with traffic (and that's of course before you add on non-speed factors such as cost which I guess we can say is the 2nd in command behind speed).