Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

[innsertnamehere]

Alto - High-Speed Rail Network Between Toronto and Québec City

Canada's largest infrastructure project focused on the future of sustainable travel that prioritizes your needs.

altotrain.ca

I thought it would be best to start a new thread for Alto now that it is "official" to more clearly define discussions and keep the VIA thread for existing operations.

 

[bearcat]

Yes, there seems to be discussion on this both in the VIA Rail and Quebec-Windsor corridor thread.

 

[11th]

Fare needs to be priced competitively. Toronto to Peterborough for $25, to Ottawa for $45, to Montreal for $60. Discounts for children/students/seniors. So even families/groups are incentivised to ditch their car.

 

[sixrings]

Fare needs to be priced competitively. Toronto to Peterborough for $25, to Ottawa for $45, to Montreal for $60. Discounts for children/students/seniors. So even families/groups are incentivised to ditch their car.

You can’t spend 80 billion and then charge 45 to Ottawa. Via is currently charging 100 to get to Ottawa and like 150 to Montreal. That’s their sale rates. But you can put it into the universe, say some prayers, wish on a star and just maybe maybe maybe it still won’t happen.

 

[innsertnamehere]

VIA Sells Toronto - Montreal for $55 as a base fare currently. Like airlines, prices escalate for short notice bookings. Looking right now, I can book $55 tickets about a month out for a weekend trip, half that for weekday. You can get it cheaper with discounts too.

 

[crs1026]

One has to think that the cost of driving may change dramatically over the next 15 years, also.

I agree that Alto has to be highway competitive and not priced to the roof, but that may get worked out over time.

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

VIA Sells Toronto - Montreal for $55 as a base fare currently. Like airlines, prices escalate for short notice bookings. Looking right now, I can book $55 tickets about a month out for a weekend trip, half that for weekday. You can get it cheaper with discounts too.

Well I normally buy two weeks out because it’s not business. But the train is essentially half full when I travel so again I’m still confused.

 

[sixrings]

One has to think that the cost of driving may change dramatically over the next 15 years, also.

I agree that Alto has to be highway competitive and not priced to the roof, but that may get worked out over time.

- Paul

The cost of driving will only go down in 15 years time. Perhaps less people will have cars because of the cost of ownership and insurance but gas will no longer be the stumbling block.

Paul. I don’t mean to be combative. I just can’t see this getting votes and I’m confused about the need. When I take rail the most frustrating thing is sharing the line with the freight trains. This is the problem far more than the speed because it slows down the train and they can never accurately say when you will get there. I grew up with toy trains. I love trains. I took a train to New York for our honeymoon. I just don’t think it actually moves the needle. And ultimately I think it’s a promise I don’t want to believe in which will ultimately be killed. As an advocate of transit city that ruined a lot of faith I have in this government and their promises versus their actual cheque writing.

 

[bearcat]

The cost of driving will only go down in 15 years time. Perhaps less people will have cars because of the cost of ownership and insurance but gas will no longer be the stumbling block.

Paul. I don’t mean to be combative. I just can’t see this getting votes and I’m confused about the need. When I take rail the most frustrating thing is sharing the line with the freight trains. This is the problem far more than the speed because it slows down the train and they can never accurately say when you will get there. I grew up with toy trains. I love trains. I took a train to New York for our honeymoon. I just don’t think it actually moves the needle. And ultimately I think it’s a promise I don’t want to believe in which will ultimately be killed. As an advocate of transit city that ruined a lot of faith I have in this government and their promises versus their actual cheque writing.

I think the gist of the logic is that the only way to not deal with freight trains is to build a brand new separate alignment from CP/CN. And if a new alignment has to be built, might as well spend "a little" extra and make it high speed.

 

[nfitz]

VIA Sells Toronto - Montreal for $55 as a base fare currently. Like airlines, prices escalate for short notice bookings. Looking right now, I can book $55 tickets about a month out for a weekend trip, half that for weekday. You can get it cheaper with discounts too.

Try $200 to Montreal. Maybe $300 by the time it opens. Though I'm just guessing wildly.

Also, as someone not terribly familiar with Montreal - why is Laval getting a station when it's right next to Montreal?

The same reason that Dorval will likely have a stop (I assume). Also has to head north through Laval to get to the track to Trois-Rivieres.

Though perhaps Montreal-Nord might make more sense.

It still doesn't mean it will actually get built. We have been down this road before.

We've never got that far down this road before.

 

[crs1026]

The cost of driving will only go down in 15 years time. Perhaps less people will have cars because of the cost of ownership and insurance but gas will no longer be the stumbling block.

Sooner or later roads will be tolled. That may seem unlikely with Dofo I agree, but over the longer timeframe somebody will go looking for capital to add road capacity.. And while the average voter may gripe, the economics will demand it.

Paul. I don’t mean to be combative. I just can’t see this getting votes and I’m confused about the need.

What will move the needle is the cost and economics of enlarging airports, and the problems of managing more arriving and departing aircraft.

Things may look fine now, but our airports have only so much growth potential.

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

Sooner or later roads will be tolled. That may seem unlikely with Dofo I agree, but over the longer timeframe somebody will go looking for capital to add road capacity.. And while the average voter may gripe, the economics will demand it.



What will move the needle is the cost and economics of enlarging airports, and the problems of managing more arriving and departing aircraft.

Things may look fine now, but our airports have only so much growth potential.

- Paul

you maybe able to get away with tolling the 401 in Toronto where it’s busiest. But it will be political suicide to propose rolling between Toronto and Ottawa. Can we point to an example where a rural highway is tolled the way you are suggesting.

 

[nfitz]

Can we point to an example where a rural highway is tolled the way you are suggesting.

The New York Thruway (Interstates 90 and 87) from Buffalo to NYC has been tolled forever. That's well over 500 km. Toronto to Ottawa is only 390 km. The tolls certainly aren't at 407 levels though.

My Sussex Drive relatives would love that but I’m sure that’s beyond not likely.

Unless they are evicted in about 3 weeks time.

 

[crs1026]

you maybe able to get away with tolling the 401 in Toronto where it’s busiest. But it will be political suicide to propose rolling between Toronto and Ottawa. Can we point to an example where a rural highway is tolled the way you are suggesting.

Lots of long distance toll roads - I-90 in New York being one nearby example. If I had a map handy…..

- Paul

 

[Mihairokov]

Try $200 to Montreal. Maybe $300 by the time it opens. Though I'm just guessing wildly

So still cheaper than flying and faster, depending on where one is going.

If HSR is $100 one-way Toronto-Ottawa it will be fine. People pay that for VIA and those trips take six hours.