Toronto Vü Condos | 83.51m | 24s | Aspen Ridge | Hariri Pontarini

cdr108 said:
FYI ... the style of kitchen doors/fronts to be used are the slab european style, NOT as grey stated 'that ugly Home & Country ranch style kitchen'.
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My comment was based on a quick scan of both companies' websites, and I didn't see anything that looked like a European kitchen. Unless you're saying that style is supposed to be European.

All I know is:

Google Image Search result for "European Kitchen"

Google Image Search result for "Home & Country Kitchen"

emotcolbertbb0.gif
 
grey said:
My comment was based on a quick scan of both companies' websites, and I didn't see anything that looked like a European kitchen. Unless you're saying that style is supposed to be European.

All I know is:

Google Image Search result for "European Kitchen"

Google Image Search result for "Home & Country Kitchen"

emotcolbertbb0.gif
Click to expand...



Hi grey,

Sorry if my comment came across out wrong. Personally, I don't like the Home & Country ranch style either.

Here is an image from Paris' brochure on page 2 of what I could consider to be close to a 'european' style cabinetry (ie. slap flat panels).
There are many styles shown on page 5 and 6.

http://www.pariskitchens.com/brochure2.pdf
 
very disappointed by AR and sorry about your situation cdr108 ... having said that, it MAY make you feel better to know Paris Kitchens in fact have a cheap line of product as well (which you can see in the showroom), and I suspect builders would typically use the cheapest product line even if they use Paris Kitchens (just to use the name)

I know Cityzen did the exact same thing as AR at the '88 on Broadway' project whereby the showroom kitchen and agent were doing their sales pitch with SPECIFIC reference to Paris Kitchens (there was even a Paris Kitchen sign on the counter !), but when they started construction Cityzen just changed to another cabinet supplier (with no explaination)
 
Does anyone know for sure that Frendel is equal or better quality than Paris?

Or is it pure speculation at this point.


I guess I'm in a different situation since I purchased my Condo in May of 2008 so I already knew what the changes were, and was considered an upgrade, but I had no issues at all with picking my colours and ended on spending $1,600 in Upgrades.

The only thing I didn't anticipate was paying extra to re-locate the cable outlet and power outlet...
 
That's a joke... My impression of AR and Cityzen has totally changed... We need better consumer protectionism
 
There was like 10 cement trucks at this site the other day. They seem to be making a lot of progress. They are at ground level across the site and on the north end they are 3 floors up.
 
CGM said:
That's a joke... My impression of AR and Cityzen has totally changed... We need better consumer protectionism
Click to expand...

Most contacts don't itemize specific suppliers, nor should they - market conditions and the ability of suppliers to meet orders often change. Buying a new condo vs a resale where what you see is what you get is totally different. If buyer X purchasers pre-construction from builder A in 2005 and construction doesn't begin for 12 months, then all the underground work has to be done and maybe 12-16 months later the contracts with the suppliers/manufactures are finalized.... how is a builder supposed to guarantee a specific product and order up to and sometimes over 2 or 3 years in advance. Costs fluctuate and the ability of specific suppliers and manufactures to meet orders can change over multi year periods.

Most contracts will state that you should get a product of equal or greater value when it comes to appliances and in reality that is the best a general contractor or builder can do given the time frames for new construction.

Better consumer protectionism in this case of gauranteeing a specific product line is virtually impossible - I'm not sure what you would suggest - ordering products immediately and storing them in a warehouse - essentially adding tens of thousands of dollars to the purchase price of each condo unit?
 
^... In the cases mentioned above the builders could have done more to fulfill their original proposals.
 
Mike in TO said:
Most contacts don't itemize specific suppliers, nor should they - market conditions and the ability of suppliers to meet orders often change. Buying a new condo vs a resale where what you see is what you get is totally different. If buyer X purchasers pre-construction from builder A in 2005 and construction doesn't begin for 12 months, then all the underground work has to be done and maybe 12-16 months later the contracts with the suppliers/manufactures are finalized.... how is a builder supposed to guarantee a specific product and order up to and sometimes over 2 or 3 years in advance. Costs fluctuate and the ability of specific suppliers and manufactures to meet orders can change over multi year periods.

Most contracts will state that you should get a product of equal or greater value when it comes to appliances and in reality that is the best a general contractor or builder can do given the time frames for new construction.

Better consumer protectionism in this case of gauranteeing a specific product line is virtually impossible - I'm not sure what you would suggest - ordering products immediately and storing them in a warehouse - essentially adding tens of thousands of dollars to the purchase price of each condo unit?
Click to expand...

I must agree with you on your marketing outlook, but...you missed an important point, which is the replacement of supplies with a lesser quality product. What do you call this? I called it misrepresentation and abuse!!
 
I went to my colour selection last week and like many others have stated, we are now being sold a bill of goods that is completely different from what was represented since day 1 in the model suite; verbally confirmed by Aspen Ridge Sales Manager Jason Attard at the Design Seminar conducted by Cecconi Simone 0n October 26, 2006; and in print in the subsequent VuNewsletter.

Here's what was represented to me and what I know:

Model suite kitchen was standard except for upgrades to the type of granite, s/s backsplash, glass inserts in the horizontal cabinets (flat panel w/o glass was standard).
All handles were mounted horizontal and the kitchen island had one set of pots & pans drawers.

At the Design Seminar in October 2006, Mr. Attard as Sales Manager, Aspen Ridge, announced that nulofts would have flat ceilings - not stippled - throughout the suite.

In a Newsletter, it stated that AR had chosen Paris Kitchen's as the supplier for the cabinets.


changed:

Kitchen cabinet supplier changed from Paris to Frendel.
Handles are shorter/smaller and will be mounted vertical as opposed to horizontal as represented in the model suite.

According to AR, the decision to change to Frendel had to do with the Paris' inability to meet time lines; handles are vertical b/c Frendel's production capability does not allow them to mount the handles horizontally. Although, somehow the horizontal cabinets doors will have their handles on the horizontal, and so will the drawers.

Horizontal cabinets are no longer standard - now an upgrade:
$145/door w/o glass insert;
$630/door with glass insert but only available in 2 choices - white coloured door or in aluminum frame.
Otherwise, you get upper cabinets doors that are 50 1/2 inches tall.

Pots and pans drawers eliminated for all islands b/c according to AR some units' island were not deep enough to fit them while some could. As a result, they made the executive decision to not give them to any purchasers; not even offered as an upgrade.

All units come standard with stippled ceilings, and as of now smooth ceilings may/may not be available as there is no pricing.


IMO, changing the choice of cabinet supplier and design of the kitchen as represented is materially significant.
Is Frendel's quality equivalent or better than Paris' ?
Can it be considered "equivalent or better " when their production abilities can't accomodate the original design ?!?!?

The choices for cabinet door upgrades is limited and pricey considering they are from the same price point as the standard one (ie. Frendel's Denova euro group 2).
Basically, you are paying for the choice of different door colours at ~$100/linear foot.

Regarding the handles, I asked them if they could just install the doors UNDRILLED and supply me with the handles so I could install them myself. Yes to the undrilled doors, but NO to supplying me the handles to which I've already paid for. ?!?!?

When I was there, another couple came by to finalize their colour selection and they were not pleased with what had happened. They indicated that they've emailed AR many times and have not heard back from the developers regarding the changes.
 
cdr108 said:
I went to my colour selection last week and like many others have stated, we are now being sold a bill of goods that is completely different from what was represented since day 1 in the model suite; verbally confirmed by Aspen Ridge Sales Manager Jason Attard at the Design Seminar conducted by Cecconi Simone 0n October 26, 2006; and in print in the subsequent VuNewsletter.

Here's what was represented to me and what I know:

Model suite kitchen was standard except for upgrades to the type of granite, s/s backsplash, glass inserts in the horizontal cabinets (flat panel w/o glass was standard).
All handles were mounted horizontal and the kitchen island had one set of pots & pans drawers.

At the Design Seminar in October 2006, Mr. Attard as Sales Manager, Aspen Ridge, announced that nulofts would have flat ceilings - not stippled - throughout the suite.

In a Newsletter, it stated that AR had chosen Paris Kitchen's as the supplier for the cabinets.


changed:

Kitchen cabinet supplier changed from Paris to Frendel.
Handles are shorter/smaller and will be mounted vertical as opposed to horizontal as represented in the model suite.

According to AR, the decision to change to Frendel had to do with the Paris' inability to meet time lines; handles are vertical b/c Frendel's production capability does not allow them to mount the handles horizontally. Although, somehow the horizontal cabinets doors will have their handles on the horizontal, and so will the drawers.

Horizontal cabinets are no longer standard - now an upgrade:
$145/door w/o glass insert;
$630/door with glass insert but only available in 2 choices - white coloured door or in aluminum frame.
Otherwise, you get upper cabinets doors that are 50 1/2 inches tall.

Pots and pans drawers eliminated for all islands b/c according to AR some units' island were not deep enough to fit them while some could. As a result, they made the executive decision to not give them to any purchasers; not even offered as an upgrade.

All units come standard with stippled ceilings, and as of now smooth ceilings may/may not be available as there is no pricing.


IMO, changing the choice of cabinet supplier and design of the kitchen as represented is materially significant.
Is Frendel's quality equivalent or better than Paris' ?
Can it be considered "equivalent or better " when their production abilities can't accomodate the original design ?!?!?

The choices for cabinet door upgrades is limited and pricey considering they are from the same price point as the standard one (ie. Frendel's Denova euro group 2).
Basically, you are paying for the choice of different door colours at ~$100/linear foot.

Regarding the handles, I asked them if they could just install the doors UNDRILLED and supply me with the handles so I could install them myself. Yes to the undrilled doors, but NO to supplying me the handles to which I've already paid for. ?!?!?

When I was there, another couple came by to finalize their colour selection and they were not pleased with what had happened. They indicated that they've emailed AR many times and have not heard back from the developers regarding the changes.
Click to expand...


Let's contact and organize (there is 88 members in VU Talk) a meeting with Angie Dipede or Jasson Attard in VU office. They are open Saturday and Sunday, we all can assist.-Morocha-
 
There is power in numbers. Don't take these 'changes' lying down. Organize, and make the builder provide compensation.
 
Alvar,
thank you for your encouragment. Compensation? I don't think this will take us anywhere. They are very well protected. However, I and all others all we want is to be given what we were sold in the first place. Now we are offered a lower quality product with few alternatives. I hope we can get organized and get some results. - Morocha -
 
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