Marcanadian
Moderator
Why does everyone love these buildings?
Toronto Minto Midtown | 160.01m | 52s | Minto Group | Zeidler
Why does everyone love these buildings?
Solaris
Senior Member
Picture of the building shown on Emporis website
I guess taste is subjective ... not my style, but clearly it ranked #3 in 'Top 10 Toronto Residential Towers' per National Post
I guess taste is subjective ... not my style, but clearly it ranked #3 in 'Top 10 Toronto Residential Towers' per National Post
svenglezz
Banned
It's def. box-eeeeee and grey but the shading cofficientcy are amazing on this building...
now that is a Green design building....from the 70's.
Remember a green design starts from the outside in.
Green regards,
Sven
now that is a Green design building....from the 70's.
Remember a green design starts from the outside in.
Green regards,
Sven
gmania
Active Member
^^^^
This guy just doesn't stop. Yeah, go software and green go!
This guy just doesn't stop. Yeah, go software and green go!
svenglezz
Banned
I like this simple design first off' it is very energy effiecent what's the problem ? Plus great balconys without the ugly scupper drains.
I would walk past this building every day to school and back and always thought was cool then...more cool'r then the others around it....it's a building way ahead of it's time.
Hat's off to the architect on this project,
Sven
I would walk past this building every day to school and back and always thought was cool then...more cool'r then the others around it....it's a building way ahead of it's time.
Hat's off to the architect on this project,
Sven
Chuck
Senior Member
Alright smart guy, what would you say is the shading coefficient of the glass in this complex? Given that this is a residential building and Toronto is a cold climate city, would you personally prefer glass with a higher or lower shading coefficient?
adma
Superstar
The guy's the David Helfgott of Green...
svenglezz
Banned
What ? and What?
It's funny this place
, ....if you have something to add go ahead
I do know, many forums do not allow 1 liner'rrrrrr, just shows you have nothing to bring to the table, so go ahead and insult I have big shoulders
To Chuck, not trying to be "smart guy", just bringing forward a very very BIG issue if (from what I see) many many buildings being built and in the design stage that don't PASS this MANDITORY requirement and this is only the mechanical side of this code...not to mention the electrical side of it calculations. Maybe this is not the best place to bring this forward...will look for other places to post without the backlash, remember I did not make this code.
To answer your question Chuck...you would need to see the manufacture specs' on the glass....70's was before my time...not sure what the standard was back then for typical double pane glass, if you get the spec on it be more then happy to calculate (maybe we should do the calc's on some of the older ones too, even thow they did not have this requirment back then)
There is info available that will give you the shading coefficient for example...
Guidelines for the Interpretation of ASHRA/IES 90.1-1989 provided by Ministy of Housing, Ontario Branch. The other is the ASHRAE Fundamental Handbook page 29.8 & 29.9 (Table 5) will show the U-Factors for Various Fenestration Products with a list of Product Types so if you look at this list you can see the values.
Ok lets' take a standard building with 60% glazing (without major shading devices on the exterior of the building) the building can meet compliance conditions only if the curtainwall is triple glazed with 1/2" argon filled spaces with almost opaque tint.
So we cont. on in table 8A-32C for window-wall ratio of 0.6 in a heated and cooled building there are only two possible conditions. With a shading factor between 0.20 and 0.39 the glazing would have to have an insulation value of 0.28 c/w a shading factor between 0.0 and 0.19 the glazing would have to have an insulation value of 0.36. Looking at Table 5 for U-fators on Products from the ASHRAE fundamentals manual there is NO product with a U-value of 0.28....this does not work. So to comply one option is you would need the U-value of the glazing must be 0.26 or less and the only products meeting this requirement are triple or quadruple glazed.
The best double glazed system is product 25, double glazed, low-E coated with a 1/2" airspace. This is a standard curtainwall product and the building can have a maximum of 40% fenestration, but if you want 60% (and seems many are way over this as much as 80%)....go to triple or even quadruple.
Does this give a little more insight Chuck?
Green regards,
Sven
It's funny this place
, ....if you have something to add go ahead I do know, many forums do not allow 1 liner'rrrrrr, just shows you have nothing to bring to the table, so go ahead and insult I have big shoulders
To Chuck, not trying to be "smart guy", just bringing forward a very very BIG issue if (from what I see) many many buildings being built and in the design stage that don't PASS this MANDITORY requirement and this is only the mechanical side of this code...not to mention the electrical side of it calculations. Maybe this is not the best place to bring this forward...will look for other places to post without the backlash, remember I did not make this code.
To answer your question Chuck...you would need to see the manufacture specs' on the glass....70's was before my time...not sure what the standard was back then for typical double pane glass, if you get the spec on it be more then happy to calculate (maybe we should do the calc's on some of the older ones too, even thow they did not have this requirment back then)
There is info available that will give you the shading coefficient for example...
Guidelines for the Interpretation of ASHRA/IES 90.1-1989 provided by Ministy of Housing, Ontario Branch. The other is the ASHRAE Fundamental Handbook page 29.8 & 29.9 (Table 5) will show the U-Factors for Various Fenestration Products with a list of Product Types so if you look at this list you can see the values.
Ok lets' take a standard building with 60% glazing (without major shading devices on the exterior of the building) the building can meet compliance conditions only if the curtainwall is triple glazed with 1/2" argon filled spaces with almost opaque tint.
So we cont. on in table 8A-32C for window-wall ratio of 0.6 in a heated and cooled building there are only two possible conditions. With a shading factor between 0.20 and 0.39 the glazing would have to have an insulation value of 0.28 c/w a shading factor between 0.0 and 0.19 the glazing would have to have an insulation value of 0.36. Looking at Table 5 for U-fators on Products from the ASHRAE fundamentals manual there is NO product with a U-value of 0.28....this does not work. So to comply one option is you would need the U-value of the glazing must be 0.26 or less and the only products meeting this requirement are triple or quadruple glazed.
The best double glazed system is product 25, double glazed, low-E coated with a 1/2" airspace. This is a standard curtainwall product and the building can have a maximum of 40% fenestration, but if you want 60% (and seems many are way over this as much as 80%)....go to triple or even quadruple.
Does this give a little more insight Chuck?
Green regards,
Sven
Ryuinfinity
Active Member
Haven't the admins already told you not to bug us about this stuff?!
Solaris
Senior Member
Thank you for the engineering HVAC lession svenglezz ... could we please stop this ASHRAE discussion here and try to go back to the topic of this forum which I think deals with the architectural design and built quality of projects?
As Grey has mentioned numerous times in response to your multiple posts on ASHRAE 90.1 in several threads ... there's surely room for discussion on this topic on UT, but please start your own thread about it, seeing now you already have 28 posts which makes you eligible to start a new thread according to UT rules
As Grey has mentioned numerous times in response to your multiple posts on ASHRAE 90.1 in several threads ... there's surely room for discussion on this topic on UT, but please start your own thread about it, seeing now you already have 28 posts which makes you eligible to start a new thread according to UT rules
Chuck
Senior Member
What ? and What?
It's funny this place
I do know, many forums do not allow 1 liner'rrrrrr, just shows you have nothing to bring to the table, so go ahead and insult I have big shoulders
To Chuck, not trying to be "smart guy", just bringing forward a very very BIG issue if (from what I see) many many buildings being built and in the design stage that don't PASS this MANDITORY requirement and this is only the mechanical side of this code...not to mention the electrical side of it calculations. Maybe this is not the best place to bring this forward...will look for other places to post without the backlash, remember I did not make this code.
To answer your question Chuck...you would need to see the manufacture specs' on the glass....70's was before my time...not sure what the standard was back then for typical double pane glass, if you get the spec on it be more then happy to calculate (maybe we should do the calc's on some of the older ones too, even thow they did not have this requirment back then)
There is info available that will give you the shading coefficient for example...
Guidelines for the Interpretation of ASHRA/IES 90.1-1989 provided by Ministy of Housing, Ontario Branch. The other is the ASHRAE Fundamental Handbook page 29.8 & 29.9 (Table 5) will show the U-Factors for Various Fenestration Products with a list of Product Types so if you look at this list you can see the values.
Ok lets' take a standard building with 60% glazing (without major shading devices on the exterior of the building) the building can meet compliance conditions only if the curtainwall is triple glazed with 1/2" argon filled spaces with almost opaque tint.
So we cont. on in table 8A-32C for window-wall ratio of 0.6 in a heated and cooled building there are only two possible conditions. With a shading factor between 0.20 and 0.39 the glazing would have to have an insulation value of 0.28 c/w a shading factor between 0.0 and 0.19 the glazing would have to have an insulation value of 0.36. Looking at Table 5 for U-fators on Products from the ASHRAE fundamentals manual there is NO product with a U-value of 0.28....this does not work. So to comply one option is you would need the U-value of the glazing must be 0.26 or less and the only products meeting this requirement are triple or quadruple glazed.
The best double glazed system is product 25, double glazed, low-E coated with a 1/2" airspace. This is a standard curtainwall product and the building can have a maximum of 40% fenestration, but if you want 60% (and seems many are way over this as much as 80%)....go to triple or even quadruple.
Does this give a little more insight Chuck?
Green regards,
Sven
I don't need the insight as I already work in this field, but you certainly did confirm my suspicions - you're great for pulling random bits of information from random standards, but you don't know how to interpret them. Go back and read my question again:
Given that this is a residential building and Toronto is a cold climate city, would you personally prefer glass with a higher or lower shading coefficient?
You didn't answer my question, as it wouldn't be found in any standard.
TOinTO
Active Member
Is that question open to any one?
Uhh....lower!
Do I win?
Uhh....lower!
Do I win?
design
New Member
Wow....this place is so "CONTROLED" like the Iron Curtain....I have been banded by answering and showing an example...It's ok I found a couple other web site to discuss with real people that work in the field that know codes etc.
To Chuck....just remember I'm not the one stating things without proof, everything I posted is FACT and CODE (with MOST here not even knowing about it and that it is code and a requirment here) and even gave an example of this for a typical building with 60% glazing, with double pane glass.
I also asked you a question Chuck with no responce? So where do you get this information for argon leaking out of glass...esp. (link? anything?) as you state that you are in this field? what field? glass field? are you even an engineer? what company you work for? hmmmmm suspicions...don't realy care what your suspicions are...I don't sit here and have suspicions of people, I live life without simple threads to make me upset like so many on this web site hate to see people get a parking ticket around here if this ASHRAE 90.1 upsets people...well design to code and this will not happen.
Oh and to Solaris....uhm....this code....is about "architectural desing and built quality of projects". It's about the "skin" of the building...and part why I bring it up...why should the P. Eng. be stamping the Arch. "skin" of a building?
Anyway have a great day and goodbye Urban Toront. and everyone keep designing glass buildings...not to code .
Green regards,
Sven
by answering and showing an example...It's ok I found a couple other web site to discuss with real people that work in the field that know codes etc.To Chuck....just remember I'm not the one stating things without proof, everything I posted is FACT and CODE (with MOST here not even knowing about it and that it is code and a requirment here) and even gave an example of this for a typical building with 60% glazing, with double pane glass.
I also asked you a question Chuck with no responce? So where do you get this information for argon leaking out of glass...esp. (link? anything?) as you state that you are in this field? what field? glass field? are you even an engineer? what company you work for? hmmmmm suspicions...don't realy care what your suspicions are...I don't sit here and have suspicions of people, I live life without simple threads to make me upset like so many on this web site
hate to see people get a parking ticket around here if this ASHRAE 90.1 upsets people...well design to code and this will not happen.Oh and to Solaris....uhm....this code....is about "architectural desing and built quality of projects". It's about the "skin" of the building...and part why I bring it up...why should the P. Eng. be stamping the Arch. "skin" of a building?
Anyway have a great day and goodbye Urban Toront
. and everyone keep designing glass buildings...not to code .Green regards,
Sven
ProjectEnd
Superstar
/\ That was just a series of words strung together, punctuated by the odd emoticon. I feel bad for the members of other forums who now have to hear the gospel of ASHRAE 90.1.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
One could only hope the iron curtain is a bit more insulating than glass
Joking aside, design, you're banned because of spamming the threads with the same, barely readable postings of the same nature. Quite frankly, as someone interested in green design, I think you weren't helping the cause with your actions on here.
AoD
Joking aside, design, you're banned because of spamming the threads with the same, barely readable postings of the same nature. Quite frankly, as someone interested in green design, I think you weren't helping the cause with your actions on here.
AoD