Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli

Personally speaking, there are 2 major negatives about living in downtown Toronto: unpleasant people and the public realm. One can't do anything about the former but a pedestrian focused downtown will improve quality of life immeasurably. For all the talk about being environmentally friendly and walkable neighbourhoods, downtown is still a place built for the car. In many instances, 75-85% of the public realm is devoted to car lanes and only 15-25% devoted to people. That ratio needs to be flipped around. It will take 20-25 years but it's doable.

I love driving/cars but downtown MUST be built for people first and cyclists 2nd. If there's room left for car lanes after those 2 things are satisfied, then you put lanes in for cars. In many cases that means 0, 1, or 2 lanes for cars only. I have zero sympathy for people that insist on bringing 2000 lbs of metal, glass, and rubber around with them where ever they go (their car). Walk, cycle, take PT, and live where you work. Downtown and its inhabitants shouldn't have to suffer because these people refuse to do so.
 
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Undead said:
Sorry for the OT, last post. Noise, crime, crowds, transient population, small units, bad for driving/walking/cycling/transit, lack of greenery/green space. I know many of these issues are present across most of the city. But they're particularly acute and concentrated downtown.

For the record--I'm young, I like transit and I live in an apartment. Maybe I'm the "target demographic" for downtown. But you wouldn't catch me dead living there. Hard pass for this millenial.
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Realistically, this is purely subjective. And extremely hyperbolic.

Downtown is literally packed to the brim, rents are so high because everyone wants to live there.

I don’t think theres much point trying to “prove” this person wrong. This comes off a bit troll-y anyway.

And this is from a millenial who has ver much lived downtown (and *gasp*, enjoyed it) For over 10 years.
 
urbanexplorer said:
I don’t think theres much point trying to “prove” this person wrong. This comes off a bit troll-y anyway.
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Yeah, excuse you. Anyone throwing around the "troll" mantra can be ignored, perhaps with a massive roll of the eyes.

Edit: One more thought, I guess, since this struck a nerve. I don't expect an urbanist audience to be sympathetic to any argument that downtown has some (emphasis for the trolls) fairly unlivable aspects to it. Nevertheless, it's self evidently true.

Of course, you'll find plenty of people to argue against that viewpoint. But just because so many folks here like downtown doesn't mean there aren't strong counterarguments to that perspective. And as a stubborn and argumentative contrarian, I'll always argue the other side.

Also, these things aren't quite as subjective as you might imagine.

Northern Light said:
No. Have to disagree here completely. This area is the gold standard for transit, this is Union Station, this is the U of Line 1, this is the Spadina LRT and extensive 24-hour transit.
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Should have clarified I mean the streetcars which are kneecapped by lack of TSP and ROW.
 
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isaidso said:
Personally speaking, there are 2 major negatives about living in downtown Toronto: unpleasant people and the public realm. One can't do anything about the former but a pedestrian focused downtown will improve quality of life immeasurably. For all the talk about being environmentally friendly and walkable neighbourhoods, downtown is still a place built for the car. In many instances, 75-85% of the public realm is devoted to car lanes and only 15-25% devoted to people. That ratio needs to be flipped around. It will take 20-25 years but it's doable.

I love driving/cars but downtown MUST be built for people first and cyclists 2nd. If there's room left for car lanes after those 2 things are satisfied, then you put lanes in for cars. In many cases that means 0, 1, or 2 lanes for cars only. I have zero sympathy for people that insist on bringing 2000 lbs of metal, glass, and rubber around with them where ever they go (their car). Walk, cycle, take PT, and live where you work. Downtown and its inhabitants shouldn't have to suffer because these people refuse to do so.
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This is my biggest issue with downtown too. One of my favourite things about traveling in Europe is how basically every city and town of consequence has appreciable quantities of narrow roads or pedestrian only walkways, which make the place extremely welcoming to be in. Toronto has pockets of areas which do this extremely well, like the Harbourfront, but there's just not enough of them. Add in any kind of construction that takes up a portion of the sidewalk and you lose a big chunk of public space. I have never enjoyed downtown as much as during the Raptors Parade.
 
I think that the two following pictures are not in the database. They come from the architect's website.

However, the most interesting fact on the website is the completion date of 2028.

I can confirm lt will go ahead because I am a good friend of a Senior vice president at a huge commercial real estate firm and this guy knows what is going on in the commercial real estate market. As svp, he has good relations with big developers in the city too. He told me that Oxford is expected to start the construction of this complex in 2023 and that the shortest office building could be built on SPEC. I am so excited. I always wanted that one of the office building could go ahead in a close future. ❤️.
He also hinted that a huge tenant is looking a new headquarters for its main activities (maybe a big five bank). Time will tell. 😉

union-park-toronto-concept-design-1440x-q80.jpg

union-park-toronto-street-level-park-1440x-q80.jpg


union-park-toronto-street-level-retail-1440x-q80.jpg


https://pcparch.com/work/union-park
 
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Undead said:
Yeah, excuse you. Anyone throwing around the "troll" mantra can be ignored, perhaps with a massive roll of the eyes.

Edit: One more thought, I guess, since this struck a nerve. I don't expect an urbanist audience to be sympathetic to any argument that downtown has some (emphasis for the trolls) fairly unlivable aspects to it. Nevertheless, it's self evidently true.

Of course, you'll find plenty of people to argue against that viewpoint. But just because so many folks here like downtown doesn't mean there aren't strong counterarguments to that perspective. And as a stubborn and argumentative contrarian, I'll always argue the other side.

Also, these things aren't quite as subjective as you might imagine.



Should have clarified I mean the streetcars which are kneecapped by lack of TSP and ROW.
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You literally said Toronto’s downtown is unlivable. This is objectively wrong. This comes across thoughtless, despite the walkback in your edit above referencing only certain aspects of downtown being bad. I’m sure several of the tens of thousands neighbors I have would agree. 🤡.

Anyway, you got your eye roll out at me so I guess we can focus on more on-topic areas.
 
sunnyside said:
Perhaps they just mean it’s too dense. Which is a fair argument I suppose, and is definetely a product of the policies we have enacted for growth in Toronto reaching their ultimate conclusion. I wouldnt say it’s unliveable however; maybe just unlivable for a broad range of demographics. I can’t see families, the elderly or disabled looking to live downtown permanently. That’s something we’ve always known anecdotally; that the “hustle and bustle” and “crowdedness” of the city is just too much for anyone but young urban professionals.

To me this includes downtown proper and all it’s tendrils. It’s clear however that an urban area is as livable as we make it, and the greater downtown (most of the old city) is perfectly livable for all demographics. It’s that appeal that is likely driving growth in the immediate core, and that is fine. As long as we aren’t pushing out the downtown-adjacent families and residents en-masse or creating vertical slums, then adding density in the core is fine too. Downtown is perfectly livable for its target demographic, and those who are outside of that market can live just a few city blocks away in the east or west end.
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^ That's what I meant.
 
enrigue8 said:
I think that the two following pictures are not in the database. They come from the architect's website.

However, the most interesting fact on the website is the completion date of 2028.

I can confirm lt will go ahead because I am a good friend of a Senior vice president at a huge commercial real estate firm and this guy knows what is going on in the commercial real estate market. As svp, he has good relations with big developers in the city too. He told me that Oxford is expected to start the construction of this complex in 2023 and that the shortest office building could be built on SPEC. I am so excited. I always wanted that one of the office building could go ahead in a close future. ❤️.
He also hinted that a huge tenant is looking a new headquarters for its main activities (maybe a big five bank). Time will tell. 😉

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View attachment 416735

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https://pcparch.com/work/union-park
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It will most likely be BMO. TD is building their new HQ, CIBC just finished theirs, RBC built theirs 10 years ago, Scotiabank is moving to Bay Adelaide III.
 
Mercenary said:
It will most likely be BMO. TD is building their new HQ, CIBC just finished theirs, RBC built theirs 10 years ago, Scotiabank is moving to Bay Adelaide III.
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BMO just opened up their campus at Eaton Centre. That's unless they plan on further consolidating all of their office spaces together.
 
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