waterloowarrior
Senior Member
here's the investment strategy presentation (tolling, new funding methods etc)
|
|
|
Officially Unofficial Metrolinx Regional Transportation Plan Thread
- Thread starter RedRocket191
- Start date
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Road tolls, a bitter pill that works
Jun 17, 2008 04:30 AM
Royson James
Road tolls are coming – and it will be good for you.
That may be the easiest of the arguments Metrolinx has to make to GTA residents long starved of top-notch transit.
Metrolinx is the 11-member provincial agency (most members are municipal politicians) charged with the task of developing a 25-year transportation plan for the region. There is no shortage of ideas and projects as each city and town has dusted off favourite projects. What's been missing is the money – not good when the price tag is in the neighbourhood of $17 billion.
The province will pick up a hefty portion. And we can always pray for a change in Ottawa. But municipalities will have to chip in between $2.8 billion and $6.2 billion a year of their own share. And municipalities mean you.
Metrolinx is to present a draft report on the financing options next month and decide by October. And last Friday board members received an update, a kind of preview of what to expect. That's where the road toll, or road pricing option, came up.
Once upon a time, promoting that option would have been fatal to anyone's political fortunes. Now, just about everyone realizes that road tolls are a given as the region attempts to grapple with millions of trips in one of the fastest-growing areas in the nation.
In case you are still skeptical about the need for road tolls, consider the options and alternatives for the GTA and Hamilton, each one netting $1 billion per year:
Add a 20-cent tax to each litre of gas;
Raise transit fares, especially in the 905 region, so that the fare box covers half the operating cost. The TTC is already there;
Add a 1 per cent retail sales tax;
Lobby governments to pay half the capital costs;
Slap a $1 per weekday tax on non-residential parking spaces;
Impose a 10-cent per kilometre toll on the Gardiner, Don Valley Parkway and 400 series highways.
If you managed to get all those through – all six – then you would have netted about $6 billion and have begun to address the GTA region's transportation needs. That explains why a sure thing like road tolls can't be omitted as a funding option.
Metrolinx has some advantages over the politicians who proposed road tolls in the past. The mayors and regional chairs that sit on this agency don't have to seek re-election based on their actions and voting record at Metrolinx.
For example, Mayor David Miller's re-election platform doesn't include his imposing road tolls on Toronto residents to maintain or expand the TTC. Rather, Miller pushes the idea at Metrolinx where the politicians are better insulated from public backlash.
Whether or not that flies in the face of responsible governance is a matter for pundits and the guardians of democracy. But it is efficacious. We've known that it will cost bundles of money to address our transit deficit across the region. And we know property taxes alone can't pick up the tab. That part isn't new. What is new is we have an agency that is positioned and prepared to dispense the medicine so needed to fix the region's ailing transportation infrastructure.
Which would you rather pay to get the subways and streetcars and high occupancy vehicle lanes and rapid transit and road improvements needed to move this region daily? More gas tax on top of already outrageous gasoline prices? How about a 1 per cent sales tax? None of them is painless. And we need them all.
Just remind us of the benefits.
Royson James usually appears Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Email: rjames@thestar.ca
Jun 17, 2008 04:30 AM
Royson James
Road tolls are coming – and it will be good for you.
That may be the easiest of the arguments Metrolinx has to make to GTA residents long starved of top-notch transit.
Metrolinx is the 11-member provincial agency (most members are municipal politicians) charged with the task of developing a 25-year transportation plan for the region. There is no shortage of ideas and projects as each city and town has dusted off favourite projects. What's been missing is the money – not good when the price tag is in the neighbourhood of $17 billion.
The province will pick up a hefty portion. And we can always pray for a change in Ottawa. But municipalities will have to chip in between $2.8 billion and $6.2 billion a year of their own share. And municipalities mean you.
Metrolinx is to present a draft report on the financing options next month and decide by October. And last Friday board members received an update, a kind of preview of what to expect. That's where the road toll, or road pricing option, came up.
Once upon a time, promoting that option would have been fatal to anyone's political fortunes. Now, just about everyone realizes that road tolls are a given as the region attempts to grapple with millions of trips in one of the fastest-growing areas in the nation.
In case you are still skeptical about the need for road tolls, consider the options and alternatives for the GTA and Hamilton, each one netting $1 billion per year:
Add a 20-cent tax to each litre of gas;
Raise transit fares, especially in the 905 region, so that the fare box covers half the operating cost. The TTC is already there;
Add a 1 per cent retail sales tax;
Lobby governments to pay half the capital costs;
Slap a $1 per weekday tax on non-residential parking spaces;
Impose a 10-cent per kilometre toll on the Gardiner, Don Valley Parkway and 400 series highways.
If you managed to get all those through – all six – then you would have netted about $6 billion and have begun to address the GTA region's transportation needs. That explains why a sure thing like road tolls can't be omitted as a funding option.
Metrolinx has some advantages over the politicians who proposed road tolls in the past. The mayors and regional chairs that sit on this agency don't have to seek re-election based on their actions and voting record at Metrolinx.
For example, Mayor David Miller's re-election platform doesn't include his imposing road tolls on Toronto residents to maintain or expand the TTC. Rather, Miller pushes the idea at Metrolinx where the politicians are better insulated from public backlash.
Whether or not that flies in the face of responsible governance is a matter for pundits and the guardians of democracy. But it is efficacious. We've known that it will cost bundles of money to address our transit deficit across the region. And we know property taxes alone can't pick up the tab. That part isn't new. What is new is we have an agency that is positioned and prepared to dispense the medicine so needed to fix the region's ailing transportation infrastructure.
Which would you rather pay to get the subways and streetcars and high occupancy vehicle lanes and rapid transit and road improvements needed to move this region daily? More gas tax on top of already outrageous gasoline prices? How about a 1 per cent sales tax? None of them is painless. And we need them all.
Just remind us of the benefits.
Royson James usually appears Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Email: rjames@thestar.ca
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Just a reminder, the investment strategy will be presented buffet-style, so the defeat of one proposal doesn't mean that the whole document will be defeated.
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
When did this happen to the White Paper website?
http://metrolinx.limehouse.com/portal/white_papers/wp2
EDIT: Nevermind, read back a few pages. my bad.
http://metrolinx.limehouse.com/portal/white_papers/wp2
EDIT: Nevermind, read back a few pages. my bad.
drum118
Superstar
Mississauga response to the white papers were presented to council today and will be going to Peel Council for approval as an joint venture. The report is not on line and I have to do some reading.
Some highlights:
Report calls for a gateway Hub at 403 and Dundas and only guess why with the the new bylaw baning 3P's. Erin Mills to be a Hub and the city needs to talk with the land owner about building a new hub with more room.
Missing link is the 427 transit line and this is a MTO issues. Yes it is a MTO issues since transit are not to have their own lanes in the first place.
Don't support the 407 BRT or LRT as it will take away money from other projects. I can hear a few people complaining about this comment up in York.
Some highlights:
Report calls for a gateway Hub at 403 and Dundas and only guess why with the the new bylaw baning 3P's. Erin Mills to be a Hub and the city needs to talk with the land owner about building a new hub with more room.
Missing link is the 427 transit line and this is a MTO issues. Yes it is a MTO issues since transit are not to have their own lanes in the first place.
Don't support the 407 BRT or LRT as it will take away money from other projects. I can hear a few people complaining about this comment up in York.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Metrolinx plan delayed again TheStar.com - GTA -
July 08, 2008
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter
Road tolls, licencing changes or a hit at the pumps – commuters must now wait until September to hear the region's plan to stem gridlock and fund transit improvements to nudge drivers onto the bus or train.
For the second time this summer, Metrolinx, formerly the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, is delaying the release of its draft regional transportation plan, which is designed to save Toronto from the economic and physical decline of growing gridlock.
A companion investment strategy to recommend ways of raising money for transit and other amenities is also delayed until September.
The plan was slated for release in June, then deferred to the July 25 Metrolinx board meeting. It's now rescheduled to Sept. 26, with consultations to follow in October.
Prepared by Metrolinx staff, both plans need more work before they're released to the public and the province, said agency chair Rob MacIsaac this evening.
"I want to make sure the province, the public, all our stakeholders, see the value of what we're proposing," he said.
MacIsaac dismissed suggestions that Queen's Park wasn't ready to support the kind of taxes and tolls that Metrolinx is proposing. Although he meets regularly with the transportation ministry, MacIsaac said there's been no big meeting to preview the draft plans.
There have been increasingly strong indications that Metrolinx believes there will be tough choices and costs ahead for the region's commuters.
Last month, the agency's board heard that the region would need another $2.8 billion to $6.2 billion a year over the next 25 years to build a transit system that could stem greenhouse gas emissions and keep people and goods moving.
Some of the money-makers being contemplated to raise at least $1 billion annually include:
Tolls of at least 10 cents per kilometre on regional expressways, including the Don Valley Parkway, the Gardiner and the 400-series highways. That would make the cost of driving from downtown Toronto to Markham $3, or from Mississauga's city centre to Hamilton $5.
A gas tax increase of at least 20 cents a litre.
A one per cent regional sales tax.
American-style highway tolling, where driving on "express" lanes would include a charge.
Q&A with Rob MacIsaac
Here is an excerpt from an interview with Metrolinx board chair Rob MacIsaac:
Q: I understand the draft regional transportation plan and the investment strategy are not coming out this month. Can you say what the hold-up is?
RM: "We simply want to spend more time on them prior to bringing them to the board. I've been really clear we need to ensure what we're doing is as good as it can be. We want to spend more time on the regional transportation plan."
Q: There is background speculation that you have revenue tools in the investment plan the province doesn't feel ready to deal with politically yet?
RM: "I can't say, because we have not formally shown anything to the province. There's no doubt this is a very challenging thing we're trying to do. We want to make sure everybody, including the province, understands the necessity of what we're doing with the province."
Q: So have you met with the province?
RM: "I have regular meetings with the minister's office."
Q: I understand a public meeting to talk about the plan was cancelled this week. Why?
RM: "We're slowing everything down. We're going to the board in September. We may have stakeholder meetings in August to try to get some input."
July 08, 2008
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter
Road tolls, licencing changes or a hit at the pumps – commuters must now wait until September to hear the region's plan to stem gridlock and fund transit improvements to nudge drivers onto the bus or train.
For the second time this summer, Metrolinx, formerly the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, is delaying the release of its draft regional transportation plan, which is designed to save Toronto from the economic and physical decline of growing gridlock.
A companion investment strategy to recommend ways of raising money for transit and other amenities is also delayed until September.
The plan was slated for release in June, then deferred to the July 25 Metrolinx board meeting. It's now rescheduled to Sept. 26, with consultations to follow in October.
Prepared by Metrolinx staff, both plans need more work before they're released to the public and the province, said agency chair Rob MacIsaac this evening.
"I want to make sure the province, the public, all our stakeholders, see the value of what we're proposing," he said.
MacIsaac dismissed suggestions that Queen's Park wasn't ready to support the kind of taxes and tolls that Metrolinx is proposing. Although he meets regularly with the transportation ministry, MacIsaac said there's been no big meeting to preview the draft plans.
There have been increasingly strong indications that Metrolinx believes there will be tough choices and costs ahead for the region's commuters.
Last month, the agency's board heard that the region would need another $2.8 billion to $6.2 billion a year over the next 25 years to build a transit system that could stem greenhouse gas emissions and keep people and goods moving.
Some of the money-makers being contemplated to raise at least $1 billion annually include:
Tolls of at least 10 cents per kilometre on regional expressways, including the Don Valley Parkway, the Gardiner and the 400-series highways. That would make the cost of driving from downtown Toronto to Markham $3, or from Mississauga's city centre to Hamilton $5.
A gas tax increase of at least 20 cents a litre.
A one per cent regional sales tax.
American-style highway tolling, where driving on "express" lanes would include a charge.
Q&A with Rob MacIsaac
Here is an excerpt from an interview with Metrolinx board chair Rob MacIsaac:
Q: I understand the draft regional transportation plan and the investment strategy are not coming out this month. Can you say what the hold-up is?
RM: "We simply want to spend more time on them prior to bringing them to the board. I've been really clear we need to ensure what we're doing is as good as it can be. We want to spend more time on the regional transportation plan."
Q: There is background speculation that you have revenue tools in the investment plan the province doesn't feel ready to deal with politically yet?
RM: "I can't say, because we have not formally shown anything to the province. There's no doubt this is a very challenging thing we're trying to do. We want to make sure everybody, including the province, understands the necessity of what we're doing with the province."
Q: So have you met with the province?
RM: "I have regular meetings with the minister's office."
Q: I understand a public meeting to talk about the plan was cancelled this week. Why?
RM: "We're slowing everything down. We're going to the board in September. We may have stakeholder meetings in August to try to get some input."
isittimetomoveyet
Active Member
My concerns are echoed here... I just don't know if the province has the stones to implement these measures. Time will tell.
rbt
Senior Member
It doesn't. Most of the Metrolinx plans will come from new taxes and fees. To implement everything they want, you can expect 4 major new taxes (road tolls, 1% sales tax, possibly a 0.5% income tax, 30% increase in transit fares, etc.).
I'm fine with increased taxation in the form of the above for the infrastructure but a $3.5B/year operating deficit is going to be very hard to swallow without substantial and painfully obvious economic growth tied to the new transit expansions.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Granny
Active Member
I have no doubt that the powers above will find some new and creative ways to suck a few more dollars out of our pockets. There will be a lot of ballyhoo of how they are only doing it for the greater good. "We must get people to use public transit more!" they will spout.
Have any of these pathetic bastards ever actually personally tried out our transit system during the peak hours both morning and evening? I doubt it. The system maxed out well over 15-20 years ago, with nothing more than band-aid patches and lots of lip service to keep it hobbling along.
Both the Go and subway/buses are a nightmare to deal with. Anybody who uses them on a regular basis will attest to this fact.
Still the politicians go on and on that they must encourage more ridership.
What a joke.
When we all start riding the rails and buses on the rooftops and hanging ' on to each other from the bus windows and bumpers 'Bombay' style, perhaps they will add yet a couple more cars to a train and find the money to buy one or two more buses. Push comes to shove, perhaps even another sevice line to one of the outer satelite centres, but thats about it.
When will we get truly serious about Public Transit the way European cities have, and start massivly overhauling and expanding the transit infrastruture? We don't even have a realistic plan for a start date for the phony grandious pretty plans we have now.
Forget " The Better Way" ..instead try.. " If we build it, they will come"
Oh well folks. Get your wallets out. There's a new tax coming..again.
Have any of these pathetic bastards ever actually personally tried out our transit system during the peak hours both morning and evening? I doubt it. The system maxed out well over 15-20 years ago, with nothing more than band-aid patches and lots of lip service to keep it hobbling along.
Both the Go and subway/buses are a nightmare to deal with. Anybody who uses them on a regular basis will attest to this fact.
Still the politicians go on and on that they must encourage more ridership.
What a joke.
When we all start riding the rails and buses on the rooftops and hanging ' on to each other from the bus windows and bumpers 'Bombay' style, perhaps they will add yet a couple more cars to a train and find the money to buy one or two more buses. Push comes to shove, perhaps even another sevice line to one of the outer satelite centres, but thats about it.
When will we get truly serious about Public Transit the way European cities have, and start massivly overhauling and expanding the transit infrastruture? We don't even have a realistic plan for a start date for the phony grandious pretty plans we have now.
Forget " The Better Way" ..instead try.. " If we build it, they will come"
Oh well folks. Get your wallets out. There's a new tax coming..again.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Granny:
You quoted the European way - but somehow, neglected to mention the amount of taxes they have to pay for that level of transit service. One can't have their cake and eat it too.
In fact, I would argue the fallacy of the latter is exactly why we haven't had genuine transit expansion for the last two decades.
AoD
You quoted the European way - but somehow, neglected to mention the amount of taxes they have to pay for that level of transit service. One can't have their cake and eat it too.
In fact, I would argue the fallacy of the latter is exactly why we haven't had genuine transit expansion for the last two decades.
AoD
RedRocket191
Senior Member
One of the recurring issues I've heard about the Regional Transportation plan was the timeline. With the Premier strongly desiring a final plan in the fall, the resulting timeline meant holding public consultation during the summer months - a time usually avoided due to the fact that many have totally checked out when it comes to politics and planning.
Today, Metrolinx formally announced that the draft Regional Transportation Plan and Investment Strategy will be delayed until September. While this means that the public consultation for the plan will occur during the time when the public are most available and attentive, it also means that the plan might miss the cutoff for the 2009 Provincial Budget. Without a specific plan available to the Province, they will only be able to give funding to general service improvements, not for specific capital projects.
There has been a lot of speculation as to what has caused this delay. Some argue that the Premier was simply not ready to deal with some of the policies many people expected to see in the investment strategy. But, according to Metrolinx Chair Rob MacIsaac, the province has yet to see the investment strategy. I may be cynical, but I would expect the Province to be privy to a sneak peak at the plan before it is disclosed to the public. If that hasn't happened, then it suggests to me that it simply isn't finished - a theory that David Harrison shares. Metrolinx has a strong desire to ensure that the investment strategy and the RTP come out at the same time, in order to avoid derailments from the "how are we going to pay for this?" camp. If the funding plan isn't ready, then the transit plan isn't ready.
While I do subscribe to that theory, I'm certain there is a bit of truth to the other factors - either consciously or subconsciously. The plan needs to be approved by the public to stand the test of time, and it needs to be politically viable - there's no denying that, be you cynical or not. But, when the plan finally is released, we'll have a document that, for the first time, sets outs a roadmap for our future. And, that document will be politically acceptable and shaped by an attentive and engaged public.
Today, Metrolinx formally announced that the draft Regional Transportation Plan and Investment Strategy will be delayed until September. While this means that the public consultation for the plan will occur during the time when the public are most available and attentive, it also means that the plan might miss the cutoff for the 2009 Provincial Budget. Without a specific plan available to the Province, they will only be able to give funding to general service improvements, not for specific capital projects.
There has been a lot of speculation as to what has caused this delay. Some argue that the Premier was simply not ready to deal with some of the policies many people expected to see in the investment strategy. But, according to Metrolinx Chair Rob MacIsaac, the province has yet to see the investment strategy. I may be cynical, but I would expect the Province to be privy to a sneak peak at the plan before it is disclosed to the public. If that hasn't happened, then it suggests to me that it simply isn't finished - a theory that David Harrison shares. Metrolinx has a strong desire to ensure that the investment strategy and the RTP come out at the same time, in order to avoid derailments from the "how are we going to pay for this?" camp. If the funding plan isn't ready, then the transit plan isn't ready.
While I do subscribe to that theory, I'm certain there is a bit of truth to the other factors - either consciously or subconsciously. The plan needs to be approved by the public to stand the test of time, and it needs to be politically viable - there's no denying that, be you cynical or not. But, when the plan finally is released, we'll have a document that, for the first time, sets outs a roadmap for our future. And, that document will be politically acceptable and shaped by an attentive and engaged public.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Those are golden words, valuable more than many chapters of transit studies. If Metrolinx actually sticks to that mentality, there is a good chance that its mission will be accomplished.
bar1967
Active Member
Typical response.... everyone complains about bad transit but no one wants to pay for it.. It has to start somewhere, and with that as long as increased taxes are balanced/fair AND we see where our dollars are going, then I'm for it.
JasonParis
Moderator
Better to deal with it early in the mandate than later though. People got over the health surcharge and would get over issues such as road tolls so long as they saw vastly increased transit infrastructure by the time of the next election.