Toronto Ïce Condominiums at York Centre | 234.07m | 67s | Lanterra | a—A

It's a very nice website. I like! They're obviously trying to create buzz. That's what countdown clocks are for :p (Besides counting down to a date)
 
Rendering of the York Street high-rise cluster...

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scarberiankhatru said:
I'm not criticizing offices...you just think I am because you read my list of "what could have been" as a cumulative "what I want it to be." Obviously, we can't have pure offices and an entertainment/retail district and condos and whatever else. You were the one concerned about the area being dead after 5pm. If it was all offices, I wouldn't care if these few blocks were dead after 5pm. If it was all entertainment/shopping uses, I definitely *would* care. But Bremner's turning out as a mish-mash of uses, a "mixed-use neighbourhood," with not enough jobs to justify the central land it occupies, not enough retail or public/institutional space to create a great neighbourhood, and not enough architectural/tourist/whatever interest to fulfill the zillion grand plans for the area.

Sure, lots of mediocre skyscrapers will be built, and pedestrians will be generated, and a very vague/blah 'downtown' atmosphere may be created, and to that end 16 York will contribute positively, but if you think Infinity and the Telus building and a bunch of condos all add up to the best possible outcome for Bremner, you have shockingly low standards (albeit more realistic standards than Tewder).
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It was a list of uses that you felt would be an improvement over what's being built. But my point was that every one of the ideas you listed has some of the drawbacks that you see in the current developments.

Not enough jobs? Three major office buildings at a single intersection will have a lot of jobs. Not enough retail? Almost the whole length of Bremner and York will be lined with retail. And the CN Tower, Steam Whistle Brewery, SkyDome, ACC, and Maple Leaf Square will provide plenty of tourist opportunities, not to mention tourists walking between the waterfront and downtown. It's too bad the rest of the roundhouse isn't being put to better use though.

I think our difference of opinion stems form your vision of a massive single use district. That might be appropriate for the suburbs, but not downtown. Every downtown neighbourhood is a "mish-mash" of uses, except the financial district, which is its biggest criticism. A mix of uses is exactly what a downtown neighbourhood should be.

I don't know why you're tying Infinity to my supposedly low standards. If you'd read my posts you'd see that I've criticized Infinity on several occasions.

The Distillery argument is most certainly not a red herring. If this city will allow part of a national historic site to be torn down for condos, what chance is there that the city will approach sites like Bremner with reservations about the amount of vacant land doled out to condo developers? The city permitted the Distillery condos partially to kickstart redevelopment in the area, but almost every plot of land around Bremner is either built, under construction, or spoken for...it's a bit late for them to now worry about what kind of land use they'd like to see.

Anyway, just because I've said some sites would be better off with non-condo uses, this doesn't mean I want to ban or forbid condos...you're putting all those words in my mouth. Ultimately, I don't think we should build the condos first and ask questions later.
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Yes, it's a red herring, an argument that may itself be valid, but doesn't address the issue in question, and diverts the argument. What's approprate at the Distillery has nothing to do with the Railway Lands.

Land isn't "doled out" to developers. I don't kow where you get that idea, but I don't think you quite know how real estate works. When a developer buys land from the railways (or whoever used to own the land), the city has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a private transaction between private interests. Municipalities cannot and should not have anything to do with real estate transactions.

Yes, it appears that you want to forbid condos in the Bremner & York area. Everything you've argued so far has indicated that.
 
From the Lanterra site:
The complex at the south-west corner of York and Bremner contains a total of 1,800,000 square feet and is being uniquely designed by renowned architect Peter Clewes of Architect Alliance in a distinct Scandinavian design
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Sorry, but I have been to Scandinavia and spent quite a bit of time in various Scandinavian countries and I am not sure what makes this distinctly Scandinavian? What makes it even remotely Scandinavian?

p5
 
MisterF: The list didn't represent improvements, it was a list of options. The city had a huge swath of empty land in a prime location and they chose to build North York Centre-by-the-Gardiner. What vision! Unlike North York Centre, though, they're not building upon an established neighbourhood, just plopping down boxes and designing a community using massing and traffic studies. I hope that Longo's, a PATH connection, and whatever other won concessions are enough to improve upon North York Centre...really, I do; it might be the most valuable bit of land in the city and we can't afford it be anything but a wild success. We won't get another urban canvas like this for generations or centuries.

You're lecturing me on how everything works (and, yes, the city doles out land uses through zoning and council approval, even though it's regularly reversed by the OMB), yet you're confident that condos and a couple of office buildings were a fait accompli because 1) that's what makes a great neighbourhood and 2) that's what the market rendered inevitable (of which Infinity is a key part). I don't agree with either point.
 
p5connex said:
From the Lanterra site:

Sorry, but I have been to Scandinavia and spent quite a bit of time in various Scandinavian countries and I am not sure what makes this distinctly Scandinavian? What makes it even remotely Scandinavian?

p5
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Peter Clewes is emerging as one of the most ingenious condo marketers in the city. I wonder if he'll take the final leap and start up his own development firm.
 
I really wish people would stop using flickr to host their images. They load soooo very sloooow.
I appreciate you posting them, just please use a different host.
Flickr is more for personal photography anyways...

As for it being Scandinavian? Is the designer Scandinavian?
 
phunky said:
I really wish people would stop using flickr to host their images. They load soooo very sloooow.
I appreciate you posting them, just please use a different host.
Flickr is more for personal photography anyways...
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I agree. I have 10MB service and that photo above took 30 seconds to download. I use Photobucket, which is free... hint-hint! :)
 
"With regard to "mixed-use", plenty of lowrise residential neighbourhoods are totally "dead" during the day when everyone's at work and the kids are at school, and they're "dead" at night when everyone's indoors asleep. Nobody objects - this is what residents want, this is what makes them attractive places to live. It doesn't kill people like us to go a short distance to shop, or to work, either. King and Bay on a Sunday afternoon is also "dead", but so what? - if there's nobody living there then there's nobody there to be offended by the shocking - absolutely shocking! - silence. Besides, transformations like this, from busy to quiet and back to busy again, are part of the urban experience all over the world. There are tons of places to retail shop in the downtown too, so perhaps inserting it into the ground floor ( okay, let's go for the first two floors ) of condo buildings isn't really all that necessary anyway"

These are interesting points. Because of Jane Jacobs I has always assumed a constant buzz was a good thing - more eyes on the street etc.
But perhaps you are right; what is wrong with "dead" areas so long as they remain safe, are maintained and attractive?
 
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