Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

[Riseth]

The original proposal looked way too ambitious and complex to ever be built in the first place. I knew that back when the first renders were released in 2012. What we're seeing now may me modified but it still looks interesting and unique for the city. Changes can still happen too.

 

[JohnnyRaylander]

If this had been released in 2018 and the 2018 render was released now, I bet people would be just as critical this time around because of the expectation that each iteration will be a downgrade. It's obviously hard to tell what exactly the building will be like at this stage but I, for one, am excited by the concept and think it could be much better than the 2018 version.

but the original version is obviously the most exciting and ambitious.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This city's conservatism continues to negatively affect building design. Gehry's original concept was original and exciting with its curves so characteristic of his most iconic structures. Unfortunately each reiteration has made the design plainer and more and more boxy - now just a deconstructivist vision of the boring glass boxes proliferating in the city This will not be remembered as a tribute to his career - not when you compare what is coming out of firms like MAD and Zaha Hadid.

This has nothing to do with conservatism, and everything to do with financials.

Further, given that we know literally nothing about the materials used in this project, I'm not willing to "write it off". There is a lot of room for this to be stunning. If the exterior is indeed crimpled and reflective, this thing will glisten in the daylight. This may very well be remembered as a "refined", not watered down, version of Gehry's work.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

With crimpled aluminium panels, similar to Gehry's Luma Arles in France, this tower will glisten spectacularly in the daylight.

Source article: Deezen: https://www.dezeen.com/2018/11/21/luma-arles-frank-gehry-aluminium-tower-takes-shape-france/

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

With crimpled aluminium panels, similar to Gehry's Luma Arles in France, this tower would glisten spectacularly in the daylight.

Which reminds me of another issue I am having with revised design: Is anyone considering how reflective this thing would get when standing in plain view of unobstructed sunlight?

Due to its size, girth and reflective surface are, I am going to assume it will be a lot. Likely more than regular humans can handle when looking directly at it under those conditions...

 

[bmiller]

Reminds me of the potential reflective problem like the Walkie Talkie sky scraper in London a few years ago. Although not concave, there could be some issues, depending on materials used.

No more Walkie Scorchie! London skyscraper which melted cars by reflecting sunlight is fitted with shading

The concave design of 20 Fenchurch Street, better known as the Walkie Talkie, caused the sun to shine direct rays of light onto the street below and damaged several cars, including a Jaguar XJ.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[adHominem]

Which reminds me of another issue I am having with revised design: Is anyone considering how reflective this thing would get when standing in plain view of unobstructed sunlight?

Due to its size, girth and reflective surface are, I am going to assume it will be a lot. Likely more than regular humans can handle when looking directly at in under those conditions...

It wouldn't be the first time. I'd hope the architect would learn from past experience: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_Concert_Hall#Reflection_problems

 

[TheTigerMaster]

With crimpled aluminium panels, similar to Gehry's Luma Arles in France, this tower will glisten spectacularly in the daylight.

Source article: Deezen: https://www.dezeen.com/2018/11/21/luma-arles-frank-gehry-aluminium-tower-takes-shape-france/

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Initially wasn't a fan of the liberal use of boring old curtain wall on this project, but I get it. If these panels covered the entire building, the light reflecting off the crimpled aluminum would have been completely overwhelming. The curtain wall is necessary to break it all up, and provide visual contrast.

Also, what the hell is this? Really want to know what material that will be covered in. I'm assuming they're not installing a giant five-storey tall mirror here

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This city's conservatism continues to negatively affect building design. Gehry's original concept was original and exciting with its curves so characteristic of his most iconic structures. Unfortunately each reiteration has made the design plainer and more and more boxy - now just a deconstructivist vision of the boring glass boxes proliferating in the city This will not be remembered as a tribute to his career - not when you compare what is coming out of firms like MAD and Zaha Hadid.

With crimpled aluminium panels, similar to Gehry's Luma Arles in France, this tower will glisten spectacularly in the daylight.

Source article: Deezen: https://www.dezeen.com/2018/11/21/luma-arles-frank-gehry-aluminium-tower-takes-shape-france/

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I think a lot of us are disappointed that M+G is no longer taking inspiration from the undulating forms of NYC's 8 Spruce Street, but this new design will leave Toronto better off. M+G does not need to copy 8 Spruce to be great. This design is great in its own right and, in my opinion, it will be far more spectacular than 8 Spruce (assuming these aluminum panels are used).

Toronto is getting a spectacular design here that is truly unique to Toronto.

 

[interchange42]

I think a lot of us are disappointed that M+G is no longer taking inspiration from the undulating forms of NYC's 8 Spruce Street, but this new design will leave Toronto better off. M+G does not need to copy 8 Spruce to be great. This design is great in its own right and, in my opinion, it will be far more spectacular than 8 Spruce (assuming these aluminum panels are used).

Toronto is getting a spectacular design here that is truly unique to Toronto.

As I wrote in the front page story, this latest submission is a rezoning exercise at this point, so we're only making guesses about the cladding, but you've made some really interesting speculations in the thread this morning. I hope we will see something like Gehry's Luma Arles cladding come here. We still have to wait to be sure though!

42

 

[ptbotrmpfn]

Initially wasn't a fan of the liberal use of boring old curtain wall on this project, but I get it. If these panels covered the entire building, the light reflecting off the crimpled aluminum would have been completely overwhelming. The curtain wall is necessary to break it all up, and provide visual contrast.

Also, what the hell is this? Really want to know what material that will be covered in. I'm assuming they're not installing a giant five-storey tall mirror here

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Reflection of the adjacent building ? !

 

[elad]

What does the city have to do with this? Do you seriously think that if the city approved the initial design it would actually get built? We would still likely get the value engineered version - just 3 towers of it.

Yes, and as Bogtrotter notes, does not even have the coherence of Gehry's latest toned down/presumably value engineered effort in LA! Let's face it the structural expression is a mish-mash, whatever its reflective result.

 

[ten_eighteen]

Initially wasn't a fan of the liberal use of boring old curtain wall on this project, but I get it. If these panels covered the entire building, the light reflecting off the crimpled aluminum would have been completely overwhelming. The curtain wall is necessary to break it all up, and provide visual contrast.

Agreed - the contrast is what makes it nice! This is particularly evident in the example you pointed out with Gehry's Luma Arles in France... the flat parts make the crinkle so much better


Source: https://www.dezeen.com/2020/03/05/frank-gehrys-luma-arles-tower-near-completion-photography/

 

[karledice]

Oh wow I love his work! It's gonna put a huge statement in King West!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Initially wasn't a fan of the liberal use of boring old curtain wall on this project, but I get it. If these panels covered the entire building, the light reflecting off the crimpled aluminum would have been completely overwhelming. The curtain wall is necessary to break it all up, and provide visual contrast.

Agreed - the contrast is what makes it nice! This is particularly evident in the example you pointed out with Gehry's Luma Arles in France... the flat parts make the crinkle so much better


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Woah, just noticed the windows in the close up image you posted. The windows don't even look like windows. They're just... silver.

The punched out windows, and at least some of the curtain wall, will likely get the same silver coating we see on the Luma Arles. This isn't "boring old curtain wall" by any stretch.

I just hope the combination of silver aluminum, with silver windows won't make M+G appear too silver . Indeed, some of the windows in the M+G models do appear darker in colour, so they've likely taken this into consideration.