Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[11th]

There is an advantage of having the LRT on the surface. It brings better development like the Golden Miles redevelopment and better access to the LRT. Having it on viaducts paints a more negative image of it. The line wasn't meant to be a major line from the airport to Scarborough. UPX+GO would be better if fare integration and better connection to the TTC are made.

As for the Leslie intersection, they can fix the issue without touching the track. They simply need to expand the roadway north of the tracks (which includes winding the bridge over the Don River and the underpass over CPR) to allow for a eastbound lane north of the tracks. That lane would be designated for making east to northbound turns and south to eastbound lanes. That lane would split before the Brentcliffe portal and merge after the west Don Mills portal. The 2 eastbound lanes south of the tracks would be through traffic only, no turns to or from Leslie. A pedestrian bridge would be built to service the platforms and cross the roadway. A simple drawing of what I meant. Safety islands would be installed at the intersection to make to appear as a regular intersection which would avoid the issues at Spadina/Queens Quays.

View attachment 285793

It's a matter of different visions for the corridor. At least for me, this is called the crosstown and it should've been built as a rapid crosstown metro. Redevelopment of Golden Mile can still happen with 1km apart stations. It all comes down to proper zoning.

The fix you have here is similar to how the intersection was set up. The tracks/station is where the island used to be. I wonder why they didn't think of this during the design.

 

[NoahB]

So you're going to rebut my comment about taking things out of context by using comments taken out of context. Fair enough then.

Those articles give some pretty numbers, sure, but they also don't give a lot of other data that would be required to know if the numbers are relevant and useful, rather than just pretty. They use the term "involved' many times, but in how many of them were the streetcars at fault? Is the ratio or percentage similar to other cities with other streetcar operations? Is the ratio or percentage similar to our bus network by vehicle-miles or service hours, taking into account the size indifference in the two fleets? What are those measures when accounting for pedestrian traffic where they operate?

As for the number of people who drive into "30-year-old streetcar tunnels....", what is the exact number again, 31 occurrences? And again, how many of those were actually preventable (vehicle operator was simply confused versus intoxicated or was actively looking to drive into there)?

Sheer numbers can be helpful, but are way more useful if accompanied with some context.

Dan

You disparage the numbers instead of actually addressing my comments. In the article, which is linked so you can go and read it, it does state how many are preventable crashes (defined as the TTC driver being at fault) compared to the total. But does that matter?

"Context" of who is at fault in a crash is meaningless if you are stuck outside in the cold waiting for a train that never arrives.

The tunnel is just an example of how drivers can be unpredictable and on how the very old tunnel on a line that opened 30 years ago still gets silly problems like driving into it.

The ION example is for a system that has more safety and priority features built into it still getting crashes. (and deaths) The crosstown will not have flashing lights, crossing arms, nor audible alarms which ION has.

And in your last comment, you are asking for a scholarly analysis of TTC crashes which I cant provide. And then using that as an excuse to disregard my whole argument. I can only provide the data I can find. Which are all linked above.

I suggest reading the article. Half of your questions are answered there.

 

[ARG1]

There is an advantage of having the LRT on the surface. It brings better development like the Golden Miles redevelopment and better access to the LRT. Having it on viaducts paints a more negative image of it.

Let me debunk this entire argument with 1 word: Vancouver.

Somehow, despite having the entire rapid transit system built around the idea of trains running everywhere on elevated viaducts, somehow it doesn't hinder development, in fact I'd argue that out of downtown development is better than anywhere in Toronto other than maybe North York Centre. This is despite the fact that they're built around viaducts that in your words "paints a more negative image of it", in other words, real world examples don't back up your claims of elevated lines.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And better yet, an elevated line with express services to traverse long distances.

 

[H4F33Z]

There is an advantage of having the LRT on the surface. It brings better development like the Golden Miles redevelopment and better access to the LRT. Having it on viaducts paints a more negative image of it. The line wasn't meant to be a major line from the airport to Scarborough. UPX+GO would be better if fare integration and better connection to the TTC are made.

As for the Leslie intersection, they can fix the issue without touching the track. They simply need to expand the roadway north of the tracks (which includes winding the bridge over the Don River and the underpass over CPR) to allow for a eastbound lane north of the tracks. That lane would be designated for making east to northbound turns and south to eastbound lanes. That lane would split before the Brentcliffe portal and merge after the west Don Mills portal. The 2 eastbound lanes south of the tracks would be through traffic only, no turns to or from Leslie. A pedestrian bridge would be built to service the platforms and cross the roadway. A simple drawing of what I meant. Safety islands would be installed at the intersection to make to appear as a regular intersection which would avoid the issues at Spadina/Queens Quays.

View attachment 285793

That's a quite interesting design. It's sorta like a diverging diamond interchange? I'm just wondering how the vehicles coming from Southbound to Eastbound, will get back on the proper side. The LRT Tracks are on the surface for a while east of Leslie, (800 metres) and only go underground just before Don Mills. All this work seems like a complete hassle.

I'd much rather have the LRT start rising at the Brentcliffe Portal, then elevated station just west of Leslie (or remove entirely) and elevate over the current intersection, then start descending to clear under the CPR overpass, the grade from Leslie St to CPR Bridge would be around 3% The CPR bridge would still need to be rehabed. And then the LRT would run on a guideway guarded from traffic until it dips to Science Centre Station. This way, the LRT does not have to deal with traffic lights, but can still run at street level.

 

[Undead]

Toronto is so starved for transit that elevated rail will induce plenty of re/development.

 

[micheal_can]

Everyone going on about how it should have been built.... I don't see anyone volunteering for their taxes to be increased....

 

[micheal_can]

That's a horrible argument in this context, we should be optimizing over the capacity of service provided. The marginal benefit of the right transport infrastructure is very high. Also, Toronto has tons of economic growth coming in the next 20-30 years. Any other city in North America would be lucky to draw on all the future tax revenue potential we have.

At least Vancouver adds a tax hike with their transit projects.

 

[drum118]

Was looking at the hole where The Salvation Army Church was by Yonge and it almost triple depth wise now. That one hell of a hole when it was a drive in almost a year ago.

Looks like they still digging it out as the long arm excavator was there. Can't see the bottom with all the bracing in the way.

Way behind photographing in this area and the longest of any place I shoot by 11 months.

Talking to locals while shooting, their biggest complaint was the weekend closure that should be done over night as well the shuttle buses with too many riders.

No way in hell to do this work overnight and need the weekends to do the work.

As for shuttle buses, saw a lot of empty buses on Yonge to about 20 on the artic's. If you didn't see a bus in one minute, you would see up to 10 in the next minute. My 40' left St Clair with 3 of us on it and 15 on the Artic from Eglinton. Never saw a bus with 20 or more riders on it and can't speak for all the buses other than the ones I saw.

 

[pmacpherson68]

Slightly off topic but... Is anyone else concerned about the depth some of these LRT stations are at ? It appeared that the stairways and escalators in some stations are enormously long - if and when the escalators breakdown as they are apt to do, what does that mean for ridership?

 

[Richard White]

Slightly off topic but... Is anyone else concerned about the depth some of these LRT stations are at ? It appeared that the stairways and escalators in some stations are enormously long - if and when the escalators breakdown as they are apt to do, what does that mean for ridership?

Can't be any worse than the Sheppard Subway. Anyone who has been to Bayview, Leslie, Bessarion or Don Mills can tell you the agony of stairs.

 

[robmausser]

Slightly off topic but... Is anyone else concerned about the depth some of these LRT stations are at ? It appeared that the stairways and escalators in some stations are enormously long - if and when the escalators breakdown as they are apt to do, what does that mean for ridership?

Its pretty standard with bored subways. Its typical everywhere else in the world ive been with deep bore.

 

[kamira51]

Reminds me when one of escalators at 407 station was out, man what a workout that was.

 

[KevinT]

The ION example is for a system that has more safety and priority features built into it still getting crashes. (and deaths) The crosstown will not have flashing lights, crossing arms, nor audible alarms which ION has.

The street running sections of ION, akin to those on the east end of the Crosstown, have none of these things.

 

[drum118]

​ Eglinton Crosstown LRT Construction Notice

​ UPDATED: Upcoming Concrete Pour at Eglinton Avenue and Yonge Street December 3, 2020 ​ What Work Is Taking Place? As early as Thursday December 3, 2020 crews at Eglinton Station will perform a concrete pour on the north side of Eglinton Avenue, east of Yonge Street. The concrete will form one of the permanent station structures underground. To ensure the integrity and continuity of the pour, work will begin as early as 4:00 a.m. and take approximately eighteen (18) hours to complete. To safely perform this work, the north-south crosswalk on the east side of Eglinton Avenue will be temporarily closed during the pour, to allow enough space for concrete trucks to enter and exit the work zone. Concrete trucks will stage within the work zones. Traffic control personnel and/or a paid duty officer will be present, while this work takes place. What to Expect Noise from construction equipment including concrete trucks and pumps, can be expected. Please note that concrete trucks must remain running to allow for continuous turning of the mixer and to discharge concrete. Site lighting is required and will be positioned away from residential properties. Two concrete pumps will be set up within the work one. +7 concrete trucks are expected per hour. Expect delays while travelling through the intersection. HOURS OF WORK • As early as Thursday December 3, 2020 • The pour will begin at 4:00 a.m. and take approximately eighteen (18) hours to complete. • Work may be rescheduled due to inclement weather and/or unforeseen circumstances. TRAFFIC DETAILS • No change to the existing traffic configuration is expected as a result of this work. • Concrete trucks will stage within the work zones. PEDESTRIAN DETAILS • The north-south crosswalk on the east side of Eglinton Avenue will be temporarily closed during the pour. • The crosswalk will re-open as soon as the pour is complete. • Traffic control personnel will be present while this work takes place. TTC DETAILS • No impact to TTC is expected as a result of this work.