Kraylin
Active Member
I admire your positivity but pointing out that the Yonge subway line also has shortcomings doesn't lessen the short coming with the Eglinton line. It actually proves again the incompetence in Toronto transit.
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H4F33Z
Active Member
No guys, this is not a minor issue. If you've been to Eglinton in the past year. You probably saw the LEFT TURN SIGNAL. 12/15 surface intersections currently have left turn signals to let cars turn or u-turn. This is where the problems starts. THE LEFT TURN SIGNALS ARE 20 SECONDS LONG! If we do some simple math, in the really worst-case scenario where the LRT has to stop at every red. 12 x 20 = 240 seconds or 4 minutes. That's a lot of waiting for rapid transit. That also does not include dwell time at stops.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Do you have photos of the LEFT TURN SIGNALS. Do they still have the visual clutter of verbage signs? Do the left turn signals still use solid yellow and solid red lights? If so, will it be the 22nd century before we see...
Amare
Senior Member
Assuming these numbers are correct:
4 minutes waiting for Left Turn signalling would result in 10% longer travel times (assuming one is traveling from Mount Dennis to Kennedy) solely waiting for left turning vehicles. If you factor in the rest of the non-signal priority mess, that number could easily rocket up to 15-20%.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
It's the one thing every transit user requested and it's the one thing that's not being implemented.
The signal problems are an issue with age and lack of SOGR maintenance. You don't have somewhat regular signal issues on systems, with the exception of NYC. I've never heard of any recurring signal issues on SEPTA's BSL or Boston's Red/Orange lines. I guarantee that if you neglected the crosstown signaling system for 50 years, the reliability would be even worse than the Yonge Subway's fixed block signaling system today.
Almost every other delay is attributed to passenger conduct — Tresspassors at track levels, injuries at track level (Priority Ones), Track Fires, Toronto Police Investigations, "Power Off" situations (Usually trespassers at track level), Emergency Alarm Pressing, Aggravated passengers, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if half of all "mechanical issues" are caused by vandalism or accidental damage (Holding the doors open, taking a dump on the train, etc). You aren't going to escape these delays with the crosstown.
Unless transit priority can only really be achieved with grade separation (because surface traffic management and ease of movement still has to occur), then we just built a giant line in the wrong place.
H4F33Z
Active Member
I'll try to get some footage later. I frequent the area of Eglinton quite frequently. The dedicated left turn phases feel like they take forever, and only a few cars go through anyway.
Allandale25
Senior Member
But isn't the context piece that the trip will be 60% faster than today's status quo? Getting back to something I posted earlier, I don't see why the situation can't be improved if in the first few months of operation they can determine giving more priority would improve the situation. Of course it would take advocacy and probably local City Councillors to push City staff to allow for it. I also don't see why a Councillor couldn't introduce a motion between now and opening day to change the situation.
Coolstar
Senior Member
They still state priority signalling at intersections. Given how old they are, it's quite possible Metrolinx or TTS scrapped the idea of priority signalling last minute (Most Likely) or priority signalling is still going ahead as planned and it was just another case of Metrolinx not knowing what's going on with what they're building. (Less Likely)
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crs1026
Superstar
20 seconds of waiting may be attributable to left turns, but how many seconds in addition waiting thru the red before the left turn?
Transit priority at its proper level of implementation means approaching vehicle is detected and the green is held until it has cleared the intersection, ie no red at all. Or, if detected after a yellow has triggered, the opposing cross traffic time is reduced to minimize LRT waiting time at the light. In a hit-every-red worst case scenario, that’s a lot of waiting, much more than 4 minutes.
I regularly drive St Clair, and despite ever worsening traffic congestion, I can beat the streetcar Keele to Bathurst, withoutbeing aggressive. That’s where Crosstown could end up without transit priority signalling.
- Paul
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
In the (remote) chance that there could be a light rail stoppage of some sort, and need to be replaced by buses...
Could there be alleged transit priority with replacement buses? Could they run buses on alleged transit priority in the days, weeks, (hopefully not) months before the light rail vehicles take over?
Could there be alleged transit priority with replacement buses? Could they run buses on alleged transit priority in the days, weeks, (hopefully not) months before the light rail vehicles take over?
Amare
Senior Member
Yes the trip times will be 60% faster compared to bus travel that we have along the corridor. That in itself is a huge benefit, no one is disputing that.
The problem we're all raising is that the city is refusing to activite transit priority, that would actuallly make that 60% figure attainable. Not implementing signal priority will surely that reduce that figure by a fairy significant margin. There's nothing stopping the city from implenting it after the LRT opened, but with the city thinks: "if it ain't broke, why fix it" mentality would ensue, ultimately ensuring that transit priority would never be implemented in any of our lifetimes.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
The Queensway could have been a "rapid transit line" by now, IF they had put in "real" transit priority AND transit specific traffic signals. Unfortunately, they STILL require the 100+ passengers in the streetcars to go slow through the intersections, or wait while the 3 or 4 single-occupant motor vehicles to make their left turns ahead of them. When the right-of-way was originally built in the 1950's, they had nearside stops at the traffic lights. Today, they have farside stop, but they end up waiting about a minute or more until they get a green light to move to the other side at the intersections.
Allandale25
Senior Member
I wonder if one of the pro-Transit City/LRT Councillors, like Perks, Carroll (any others left), or some who battled Ford (Layton, Cressy, Matlow), will introduce a motion to ask for a staff report on this or direct staff to give more priority.
drum118
Superstar
April 25
Lot more up on site
Lot more up on site
daptive
Senior Member
I really shouldn't judge before it's done, and I like to stay positive... but this shelter looks identical to the PetroCanada behind it.