Divas S.
Active Member
or, we can never do P3's again as they cost more than the government to just build it themselves and, we can get full control of how to operate and manage the project after it's finished
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I’m not convinced that it’s P3s themselves that are fundamentally broken. Rather, I’d suggest it’s the Government of Ontario’s implementation, where they want to load all the risk onto the private sector, that is broken.
That said, I’ve seen nothing that indicates that P3s are fundamentally better at delivering these projects than the public sector. I’d much rather have had the TTC managing the Toronto transit expansion projects, including the Crosstown. Unlike the Province, Metrolinx and their private partners, the TTC is generally transparent and accountable. City Councillors could’ve easily pressured the TTC to clean up their act with regards to construction mitigation. They cannot do the same to Crosslinx, which Metrolinx has been shielding from public criticism
cplchanb
Senior Member
I bet that most of the top construction managers are already poached by the large developers for their tall condos. It's all about the leadership and clearly crosslinx has had some pretty subpar managers over the years
tiffer24
Senior Member
"Open for business."
Metrolinx says it has no fund to compensate shop owners for lost business due to construction of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
"We don't have it," says Anne Marie Aikins, spokesperson for Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency.
"There's no pool of money where people can say, 'I lost this much business. Can you compensate me?' We don't compensate for lost business."
In a statement to CBC Toronto, Aikins said Metrolinx acknowledges that the construction has had an impact on pedestrians, drivers, transit riders and cyclists, as well as nearby neighbourhoods and local businesses.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...iness-eglinton-crosstown-lrt-delays-1.5473376
Metrolinx says it has no fund to compensate shop owners for lost business due to construction of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
"We don't have it," says Anne Marie Aikins, spokesperson for Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency.
"There's no pool of money where people can say, 'I lost this much business. Can you compensate me?' We don't compensate for lost business."
In a statement to CBC Toronto, Aikins said Metrolinx acknowledges that the construction has had an impact on pedestrians, drivers, transit riders and cyclists, as well as nearby neighbourhoods and local businesses.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...iness-eglinton-crosstown-lrt-delays-1.5473376
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm one who typically opposes corporate welfare.
But I must admit, in this case, the level of hassle for some business owners is atypical, and a real hardship.
I don't think government should hand out compensation in these types of cases to every owner/lessee, it would set a terrible precedent that would burden future projects.
At the same time there has to some allocation for owners or residents uniquely inconvenienced in way that poses a real burden.
BurlOak
Senior Member
The should have thought of this before.
In the project there are always things that lead to slower production or more disruption or less cost.
Whenever cost were saved to increase disruption - that should have been known during design and a fraction of the cost savings used as compensation.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
While I'm not certain that I'd support handing out compensation (as you said, it would be a real burden on realizing these projects), I can sympathize with the arguments in favour. I view this situation as being generally analogous to compensation for property expropriation. In both cases, the government is making a decision that is certain to significantly impair the ability of property/business owners to reap the benefits of their property. It's certainly not a fair situation for the business owners - but life isn't fair.
Again, I'm not certain that I'd support a substantial direct financial contribution to compensate these businesses, but I'd be really curious to see if the government could come up with any measures whatsoever to substantially help these businesses. Something more substantial than, say, an advertising campaign. At the absolute bare minimum, and as we discussed over the past few posts, the government needs to ensure that there is less physical disruption during construction. Crosslinx quite obviously isn't doing anything more than the absolute bare minimum to minimize disruptions to these businesses. That is not acceptable.
The government can ignore this issue at their peril. The Crosstown will eventually be up and running, but future transit projects may face increased local opposition if local businesspeople are residents believe that it'll kill neighbourhood businesses and drive people out of the neighbourhood. Not saying this will happen... but we're running a real risk here.
sixrings
Senior Member
All buildings on Eglinton proper should just have been exempt of taxes during the construction.
crs1026
Superstar
What proportion of those businesses are leased versus owned? I don’t see the merit in giving a tax break to landlords, especially if the businesses have been paying their rent on time through this period. That advantage will not trickle down to the businesses. In all likelihood the landlord is seeing an uptick in market value for their buildings and may eventually raise rents. They don’t need tax relief.
The problem with putting any serious coin in the hands of leasing businesses is that landlords will want their share.
I can’t think of a way to give relief at City level, other than perhaps waiving fees for business licenses etc. What the city and province can do is lean on the contractor to get every last pylon and piece of work equipment out of the way once the holes are gone. Put the money into Eglinton Connects and try to maximise the future opportunity.
- Paul
The problem with putting any serious coin in the hands of leasing businesses is that landlords will want their share.
I can’t think of a way to give relief at City level, other than perhaps waiving fees for business licenses etc. What the city and province can do is lean on the contractor to get every last pylon and piece of work equipment out of the way once the holes are gone. Put the money into Eglinton Connects and try to maximise the future opportunity.
- Paul
sixrings
Senior Member
I feel bad for the businesses. I used to take piano lessons at one business and another is our local pub. At the same time Im sure the owners are just waiting for the line to be finished to sell to developers. If I was the renter I would have been gone a long time ago.
Adjei
Senior Member
Not to excuse Crosslinx but how is the construction on Eglinton different from any other Toronto road construction sites or other construction sites? I drove around Keele and Finch when they building the Spadina extension and Eglinton is no different from that construction zone. If y'all are so offended by Eglinton then how do y'all manage to go around other construction sites in this city or even the city itself. Most of Toronto looks dilapidated. Driving through the majority of Toronto I am shocked at how rundown most of the place looks especially the suburbs. From potholes and terrible roads to cracked sidewalks, wooden hydro poles, hydro wires everywhere, third world or nonexistent public realm. You can't compare what is happening in London to here. They seem to have standards which they make sure are upheld. Standards here are nonexistent or so low to begin with. Crosslinx is meeting the minimum standards of this city. You think if this project was in London, Crosslinx would be doing this? As they say when in Rome, do as the Romans do...
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Saving money by postponing maintenance, and hoping no one notices. Normal situation due to the fiscal-conservatives.
crs1026
Superstar
Nothing specific to conservatives here. Over-extended liberals with more spending promises than they can fund do exactly the same thing, rather than face fiscal realities.
The root cause is a political system that is not prepared to defend the cost of doing things right, and prefers to squeeze until people do things wrong.
- Paul
