Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[tnarduzzi]

Just look at the state of the road markings. Markings are faded and in the wrong spot. Years out-of-date road markings aren’t being removed. Old and out-of-date road signs litter the streets and sidewalks.

It’s clear that Crosslinx does not give a damn about minimizing disruption

I know I’ve seen at least one accident on Eglinton that was caused by conflicting road markings

Yes the roads are beyond awful. At first I was willing to write it off as temporary construction related damage. But this project has now just dragged on forever, it’s gotten to the point where it has now been literally years of driving over the same potholes.

Case and point of the ineptitude:
I commute by vehicle on Eglinton daily passing both Leslie and Brentcliff. Going westbound there is a massive pothole about 6” deep on the hill going up toward Brentcliff. It is a sunken catch basin which has been there for months. It’s now deep enough to seriously damage cars going any faster then a slow creep. I’ve called this in to 311. 311 dispatched CoT Transportation Services staff. Transportation was forced to notify Metrolinx and close their work order because the city has temporarily ceded responsibility of Eglinton. Anybody want to take over/under bets on if Metrolonx fixes the catch basin before the entire Crosstown project is actually opened? I say over, the project opens first.

It looks like all problems with Eglinton ultimately get punted to the consortium. The contractor is clearly not going to go above and beyond at this point. I predict the City’s post Crosstown Eglinton beautification project ends up absorbing a bunch of repair overages for damages actually done by the Crosstown contractor.

Sorry to vent and derail this thread slightly but at this point I’m over it. This has been a disaster and despite having a background in planning and a great appreciation for transit I never ever want Metrolinx anywhere even remotely close to my home ever again!

 

[tnarduzzi]

Crossrail doesn't have to deal with the number of cars Eglinton avenue sees. Potholes really aren't an issue for them, and Jersey barriers aren't required.

Yes I agree the projects have different requirements but even the Crosstown Jersey barriers are falling apart. I mean literally in numerous places along Eglinton it’s just strings of smashed up concrete chunks held together by the rebar.

The contractor has clearly stopped caring/never cared, is strapped for cash/squeezing every penny of possible profit, or both.

And the icing on the cake. Honestly if this were an 18 month project I wouldn’t even care. It’s the fact that it is in this state now for years is what bothers me.

Edit. I’m going to add here instead of hijacking with yet another post that another thing that bothers me is the unnecessary lane closures. In places it looks to me like lanes have been closed off for months for materials storage, inactive staging, or even worse... to accommodate parking for the work crews. This is just a slap in the face on top of everything else.

 

[Coolstar]

Yes the roads are beyond awful. At first I was willing to write it off as temporary construction related damage. But this project has now just dragged on forever, it’s gotten to the point where it has now been literally years of driving over the same potholes.

Case and point of the ineptitude:
I commute by vehicle on Eglinton daily passing both Leslie and Brentcliff. Going westbound there is a massive pothole about 6” deep on the hill going up toward Brentcliff. It is a sunken catch basin which has been there for months. It’s now deep enough to seriously damage cars going any faster then a slow creep. I’ve called this in to 311. 311 dispatched CoT Transportation Services staff. Transportation was forced to notify Metrolinx and close their work order because the city has temporarily ceded responsibility of Eglinton. Anybody want to take over/under bets on if Metrolonx fixes the catch basin before the entire Crosstown project is actually opened? I say over, the project opens first.

It looks like all problems with Eglinton ultimately get punted to the consortium. The contractor is clearly not going to go above and beyond at this point. I predict the City’s post Crosstown Eglinton beautification project ends up absorbing a bunch of repair overages for damages actually done by the Crosstown contractor.

Sorry to vent and derail this thread slightly but at this point I’m over it. This has been a disaster and despite having a background in planning and a great appreciation for transit I never ever want Metrolinx anywhere even remotely close to my home ever again!

In short basically, don't trust Metrolinx with any transit project.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Am I wrong here or is one of the reasons why crosstown is wearing everyone down is sloppy project management... it didn't really click for me until I watched this video. The decrepit state of the entire stretch of Eglinton quite frankly has me pissed off.

View attachment 232394

If a sand barrel is broken... THEN REPLACE IT! If the pylons are crushed and cracked, throw them out and replace them. If signage is knocked over then pick it back up. If there are massive and I mean MASSIVE potholes in the road then patch them.

For a project that has spanned the better part of a decade this is where Crosslinx and Metrolinx have both failed miserably. I remember looking at the Crossrail project in London and being amazed at how tidy the sites were. If you compare the projects they are not identical but both are similar in that they are crossing a major high density urban area and both have multiple construction sites operating concurrently. -- All of the sites in London were enclosed behind visually appealing barricades, the streetscape as a whole outside of these barricades was cared for and untouched by construction activity. When you compare London's approach to Toronto the difference is night and day. London clearly is taking every effort to minimize annoyance and disruption to city residents, whereby apparently Crosslinx and Metrolinx could give a flying f**K.

Crosslinx and Metrolinx need to take notes from TfL's playbook. Also, we the citizens need to be more demanding and stop tolerating this ignorance from our government.

EDIT: For comparisons sake here is a picture of your average TfL Crossrail construction site... the difference in cleanliness and appearance is staggering.
View attachment 232398

Just look at the state of the road markings. Markings are faded and in the wrong spot. Years out-of-date road markings aren’t being removed. Old and out-of-date road signs litter the streets and sidewalks.

It’s clear that Crosslinx does not give a damn about minimizing disruption

I know I’ve seen at least one accident on Eglinton that was caused by conflicting road markings

Yes the roads are beyond awful. At first I was willing to write it off as temporary construction related damage. But this project has now just dragged on forever, it’s gotten to the point where it has now been literally years of driving over the same potholes.

Case and point of the ineptitude:
I commute by vehicle on Eglinton daily passing both Leslie and Brentcliff. Going westbound there is a massive pothole about 6” deep on the hill going up toward Brentcliff. It is a sunken catch basin which has been there for months. It’s now deep enough to seriously damage cars going any faster then a slow creep. I’ve called this in to 311. 311 dispatched CoT Transportation Services staff. Transportation was forced to notify Metrolinx and close their work order because the city has temporarily ceded responsibility of Eglinton. Anybody want to take over/under bets on if Metrolonx fixes the catch basin before the entire Crosstown project is actually opened? I say over, the project opens first.

It looks like all problems with Eglinton ultimately get punted to the consortium. The contractor is clearly not going to go above and beyond at this point. I predict the City’s post Crosstown Eglinton beautification project ends up absorbing a bunch of repair overages for damages actually done by the Crosstown contractor.

Sorry to vent and derail this thread slightly but at this point I’m over it. This has been a disaster and despite having a background in planning and a great appreciation for transit I never ever want Metrolinx anywhere even remotely close to my home ever again!

It's gotten to the point where I've now remembered where all the potholes are and strategically avoid them.

I just hope this isn't indicative of Crosslinx's overall level of care with this project. Also, future P3s really do need to carefully outline construction mitigation methods in the contracts.

 

[tnarduzzi]

It's gotten to the point where I've now remembered where all the potholes are and strategically avoid them.

I just hope this isn't indicative of Crosslinx's overall level of care with this project. Also, future P3s really do need to carefully outline construction mitigation methods in the contracts.

So I got to wondering why the Crossrail contractors are so much more well organized than Crosslinx.

It turns out they are inspected periodically for adherence to a set of best practices by a third party non-profit organization called the Considerate Construction Scheme. The contractor, sites, and suppliers are then scored according to standardized checklists and ranked based on their compliance.

Here is an example checklist, the criteria are perfect IMO.

https://www.ccscheme.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2020-Site-Checklist-2.pdf

We totally need this here in Canada for P3s to survive!

 

[Divas S.]

or, we can never do P3's again as they cost more than the government to just build it themselves and, we can get full control of how to operate and manage the project after it's finished

 

[TheTigerMaster]

or, we can never do P3's again as they cost more than the government to just build it themselves and, we can get full control of how to operate and manage the project after it's finished

I’m not convinced that it’s P3s themselves that are fundamentally broken. Rather, I’d suggest it’s the Government of Ontario’s implementation, where they want to load all the risk onto the private sector, that is broken.



That said, I’ve seen nothing that indicates that P3s are fundamentally better at delivering these projects than the public sector. I’d much rather have had the TTC managing the Toronto transit expansion projects, including the Crosstown. Unlike the Province, Metrolinx and their private partners, the TTC is generally transparent and accountable. City Councillors could’ve easily pressured the TTC to clean up their act with regards to construction mitigation. They cannot do the same to Crosslinx, which Metrolinx has been shielding from public criticism

 

[cplchanb]

So I got to wondering why the Crossrail contractors are so much more well organized than Crosslinx.

It turns out they are inspected periodically for adherence to a set of best practices by a third party non-profit organization called the Considerate Construction Scheme. The contractor, sites, and suppliers are then scored according to standardized checklists and ranked based on their compliance.

Here is an example checklist, the criteria are perfect IMO.

https://www.ccscheme.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2020-Site-Checklist-2.pdf

We totally need this here in Canada for P3s to survive!

I bet that most of the top construction managers are already poached by the large developers for their tall condos. It's all about the leadership and clearly crosslinx has had some pretty subpar managers over the years

 

[tiffer24]

"Open for business."

Metrolinx says it has no fund to compensate shop owners for lost business due to construction of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.

"We don't have it," says Anne Marie Aikins, spokesperson for Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency.

"There's no pool of money where people can say, 'I lost this much business. Can you compensate me?' We don't compensate for lost business."

In a statement to CBC Toronto, Aikins said Metrolinx acknowledges that the construction has had an impact on pedestrians, drivers, transit riders and cyclists, as well as nearby neighbourhoods and local businesses.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...iness-eglinton-crosstown-lrt-delays-1.5473376

 

[Northern Light]

"Open for business."

Metrolinx says it has no fund to compensate shop owners for lost business due to construction of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.

"We don't have it," says Anne Marie Aikins, spokesperson for Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency.

"There's no pool of money where people can say, 'I lost this much business. Can you compensate me?' We don't compensate for lost business."

In a statement to CBC Toronto, Aikins said Metrolinx acknowledges that the construction has had an impact on pedestrians, drivers, transit riders and cyclists, as well as nearby neighbourhoods and local businesses.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...iness-eglinton-crosstown-lrt-delays-1.5473376

I'm one who typically opposes corporate welfare.

But I must admit, in this case, the level of hassle for some business owners is atypical, and a real hardship.

I don't think government should hand out compensation in these types of cases to every owner/lessee, it would set a terrible precedent that would burden future projects.

At the same time there has to some allocation for owners or residents uniquely inconvenienced in way that poses a real burden.

 

[BurlOak]

I'm one who typically opposes corporate welfare.

But I must admit, in this case, the level of hassle for some business owners is atypical, and a real hardship.

I don't think government should hand out compensation in these types of cases to every owner/lessee, it would set a terrible precedent that would burden future projects.

At the same time there has to some allocation for owners or residents uniquely inconvenienced in way that poses a real burden.

The should have thought of this before.

In the project there are always things that lead to slower production or more disruption or less cost.
Whenever cost were saved to increase disruption - that should have been known during design and a fraction of the cost savings used as compensation.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

"Open for business."

Metrolinx says it has no fund to compensate shop owners for lost business due to construction of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.

"We don't have it," says Anne Marie Aikins, spokesperson for Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency.

"There's no pool of money where people can say, 'I lost this much business. Can you compensate me?' We don't compensate for lost business."

In a statement to CBC Toronto, Aikins said Metrolinx acknowledges that the construction has had an impact on pedestrians, drivers, transit riders and cyclists, as well as nearby neighbourhoods and local businesses.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...iness-eglinton-crosstown-lrt-delays-1.5473376

I'm one who typically opposes corporate welfare.

But I must admit, in this case, the level of hassle for some business owners is atypical, and a real hardship.

I don't think government should hand out compensation in these types of cases to every owner/lessee, it would set a terrible precedent that would burden future projects.

At the same time there has to some allocation for owners or residents uniquely inconvenienced in way that poses a real burden.

The should have thought of this before.

In the project there are always things that lead to slower production or more disruption or less cost.
Whenever cost were saved to increase disruption - that should have been known during design and a fraction of the cost savings used as compensation.

While I'm not certain that I'd support handing out compensation (as you said, it would be a real burden on realizing these projects), I can sympathize with the arguments in favour. I view this situation as being generally analogous to compensation for property expropriation. In both cases, the government is making a decision that is certain to significantly impair the ability of property/business owners to reap the benefits of their property. It's certainly not a fair situation for the business owners - but life isn't fair.

Again, I'm not certain that I'd support a substantial direct financial contribution to compensate these businesses, but I'd be really curious to see if the government could come up with any measures whatsoever to substantially help these businesses. Something more substantial than, say, an advertising campaign. At the absolute bare minimum, and as we discussed over the past few posts, the government needs to ensure that there is less physical disruption during construction. Crosslinx quite obviously isn't doing anything more than the absolute bare minimum to minimize disruptions to these businesses. That is not acceptable.

The government can ignore this issue at their peril. The Crosstown will eventually be up and running, but future transit projects may face increased local opposition if local businesspeople are residents believe that it'll kill neighbourhood businesses and drive people out of the neighbourhood. Not saying this will happen... but we're running a real risk here.

 

[sixrings]

All buildings on Eglinton proper should just have been exempt of taxes during the construction.

 

[crs1026]

What proportion of those businesses are leased versus owned? I don’t see the merit in giving a tax break to landlords, especially if the businesses have been paying their rent on time through this period. That advantage will not trickle down to the businesses. In all likelihood the landlord is seeing an uptick in market value for their buildings and may eventually raise rents. They don’t need tax relief.

The problem with putting any serious coin in the hands of leasing businesses is that landlords will want their share.

I can’t think of a way to give relief at City level, other than perhaps waiving fees for business licenses etc. What the city and province can do is lean on the contractor to get every last pylon and piece of work equipment out of the way once the holes are gone. Put the money into Eglinton Connects and try to maximise the future opportunity.

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

I feel bad for the businesses. I used to take piano lessons at one business and another is our local pub. At the same time Im sure the owners are just waiting for the line to be finished to sell to developers. If I was the renter I would have been gone a long time ago.