Request for comments: panhandling in Toronto

[Neutrino]

Hello all, I am writing an article about panhandling in Toronto, particularly the people at suburban intersections and at highway off ramps. I am seeing many more of these people in my area of the city and wanted to look into this. In particular, over the last year I couldn't drive along Steeles without encountering beggars at seemingly every intersection. Suburban homelessness also seems to be increasing which may be a related trend.

I noticed a thread here on UT about Toronto's panhandlers, but the last post was 8 years ago and I don't want to narc it. I am looking to interview you folks about any particularly vivid/memorable experiences you have had with Toronto's panhandlers and your opinion on panhandling. Any other research, help or pointers are very welcome. If you would like, I can connect you with my professor at York University in case you would like to check the legitimacy of my request.

Thanks so much!

 

[SunriseChampion]

Sooo many stories.

I often stop to talk to homeless people. Learn their stories, give them advice (no, really), give them money or gift cards...sometimes liquor, not gonna lie.

I've sat with homeless people while they beg even.

I've met a few who I run into, time and again. It's sometimes sad to see certain individuals deteriorating drastically over time.
There's a guy in a wheelchair to who I gave a 100$ Tim Card two years ago. Had a talk with him...his name is Wheels. See him a year later, he's doing "fine".
Then I see him this summer, looking haggard af, screaming nonsense whilst sat in the middle of Richmond Street.
Poor Wheels isn't long for this world.

Another dude I gave a 50$ to outside the CNE casino this summer. Sat down with him on the ground, learned his life story. He used to live on a sailboat but his girlfriend caused his downfall and because he "still loves her" he's letting her give him headaches to this day.
Well, hell no, I said...."You don't need her in your life, you need to care for yourself", etc
Well don't I see him a month later after I move to Parkdale, still dealing with that lady.

Lots of stories....panhandling's better than collecting welfare. At least they're hustling for their loot.
Some very interesting people out there, begging in the streets. Love talking to them and making them smile with a bit of help. It's almost a hobby.

Is there anything specific you wanted to know? I've spent a lot of time interacting with beggars over the last 15 years.

 

[Neutrino]

I would like to speak with the homeless/panhandlers - anyone you would think is a good fit for my article. Would love to learn their stories and feature them in my piece. I also want to learn the causes of panhandling; how society responds to these individuals and the phenomenon as a whole; potential solutions; are fears these people waste their money on drugs justified; are feelings of guilt upon seeing the less fortunate justified; is one better off giving them money, food or clothing or donating to a charity/shelter? All this and much more. Ideally, I would like to interview you as well. Or, if you're part of a charitable organization or shelter, someone who could speak in an official capacity on behalf of that organization.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I don't work for any organisations, I'm just a guy who has a healthy sense of empathy coupled with a healthy sense of curiosity.
For example, the best way to find out how people become homeless is to ask them. You'd think this would be obvious, but you see people expounding on the topic without ever having had actually talked to the people in question.

I also just like meeting people and there are few in society as approachable as those who are in need of healthy social interaction.

I don't know what solutions to this issue might look like, beyond treating mental illness much more seriously in our healthcare system.

The fear of these people wasting their money on drugs is jot justified, though the fear of these people using their money on drugs may be. A lot of them use alcohol to cope with their situations. This is understandable and not a failing on their part. I'd be getting drunk too, were I in their unenviable position.

I don't see how giving to any organisation instead of giving directly to beggars is more beneficial.
These people derive great joy simply from not being ignored! I sometimes only give a cigarette or two and a kind word. This is more than enough for most. They appreciate the kind gesture and the show of empathy from a stranger.
In fact, I think there should be more individual kindness and less organisational homeless industry building.

I'm open to being interviewed on the subject if it'll help you with your work.

 

[44 North]

There should be a technical document that has a bum classification system. Cuz the rubbies that panhandle on downtown streets are different from the hobos that build intricate forts in the valleys, which are different from the crazies that live on sidewalk vents, which are different from the organized faux-Syrian Roma that panhandle at suburban intersections, which are different from squeegee kids, which are different from actual refugees or real homeless. The list goes on. A Linnaeus-inspired handbook with a more scientific lens could be good for an article.

 

[SunriseChampion]

There should be a technical document that has a bum classification system. Cuz the rubbies that panhandle on downtown streets are different from the hobos that build intricate forts in the valleys, which are different from the crazies that live on sidewalk vents, which are different from the organized faux-Syrian Roma that panhandle at suburban intersections, which are different from squeegee kids, which are different from actual refugees or real homeless. The list goes on. A Linnaeus-inspired handbook with a more scientific lens could be good for an article.

I'm sorry to inform you that you are incorrect.
These groupings you mention are pretty well comprised of all the same people.

Here's a more accurate bum classification system:

Crackhead
Mentally unwell
Regular
Traveler
Gutter punk


Also, I wouldn't call them bums. People sitting on their arses in subsidised living arrangements and collecting welfare are bums, homeless people take nothing for nothing without it being volunteered.

 

[44 North]

I'm sorry to inform you that you are incorrect.
These groupings you mention are pretty well comprised of all the same people.

Here's a more accurate bum classification system:

Crackhead
Mentally unwell
Regular
Traveler
Gutter punk


Also, I wouldn't call them bums. People sitting on their arses in subsidised living arrangements and collecting welfare are bums, homeless people take nothing for nothing without it being volunteered.

Fair enough. However was under the impression a good percentage of those on the streets are still collecting some kind of financial assistance, but I might be wrong. Let's also not forget that there are scammers, e.g collecting full assistance with living but while also panhandling. Or in more recent years a more organized criminal aspect where supposed "homeless" are driven to select locations to panhandle. Which I'd hope Neutrino's article covers.

Apologies for the use of "bum", did think it was a lighthearted humourous approach. Especially when hearing the likes of Norm McDonald or Louis CK discuss homeless in their standup, or Seinfeld when George 'crossed the line between man and bum'. But it can be an offensive dismissive term.

 

[someMidTowner]

But it can be an offensive dismissive term.

It is an offensive dismissive term

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The stretch of Yonge from Wellesley to Dundas have a really diverse mix. There is this one lady with major speech impediment often at the College Park TTC subway vestibule - and she seem to have psych issues as well. And for the longest time there is a guy who always wears a suit at the same spot in the morning as well - who claimed that his wife cheated him of everything. He seems to have disappeared of late.

There is also one older lady who always panhandles at Kipling subway station entrance in the morning. She doesn't look very disheveled - but again you wonder what happened.

AoD

 

[pman]

It is an offensive dismissive term

Could be worse. In Australia they’re called derros.

 

[Northern Light]

I don't work for any organisations, I'm just a guy who has a healthy sense of empathy coupled with a healthy sense of curiosity.
For example, the best way to find out how people become homeless is to ask them. You'd think this would be obvious, but you see people expounding on the topic without ever having had actually talked to the people in question.

I also just like meeting people and there are few in society as approachable as those who are in need of healthy social interaction.

I don't know what solutions to this issue might look like, beyond treating mental illness much more seriously in our healthcare system.

The fear of these people wasting their money on drugs is jot justified, though the fear of these people using their money on drugs may be. A lot of them use alcohol to cope with their situations. This is understandable and not a failing on their part. I'd be getting drunk too, were I in their unenviable position.

I don't see how giving to any organisation instead of giving directly to beggars is more beneficial.
These people derive great joy simply from not being ignored! I sometimes only give a cigarette or two and a kind word. This is more than enough for most. They appreciate the kind gesture and the show of empathy from a stranger.
In fact, I think there should be more individual kindness and less organisational homeless industry building.

I'm open to being interviewed on the subject if it'll help you with your work.

Can I say how genuinely impressed I am that you give your time, empathy and money in that way, particularly so for doing it as often as you have.

I consider myself a charitable soul; I do give sometimes to panhandlers, but admit a certain fatigue in seeing so many.

I've only stopped to really listen to a story once or twice. I remember seeing a woman outside the Loblaws at Leslie/Lakeshore about this time last year.

It was a cold night and heading well below zero and she was not dressed for it.

I stopped to ask after her.......I won't share the whole story except to say she had been locked out of a place she had been sharing and she had actually phoned the City and been told all the shelters were full.

I was apoplectic on her behalf.

Couldn't fix the situation for her on the spot, but gave her enough money to stay on transit all night if need be and stop for a coffee or three.

Taking the time can be both rewarding and enlightening, and more than a tad disheartening. Good on you investing in folks that way.

 

[Northern Light]

I would like to speak with the homeless/panhandlers - anyone you would think is a good fit for my article. Would love to learn their stories and feature them in my piece. I also want to learn the causes of panhandling; how society responds to these individuals and the phenomenon as a whole; potential solutions; are fears these people waste their money on drugs justified; are feelings of guilt upon seeing the less fortunate justified; is one better off giving them money, food or clothing or donating to a charity/shelter? All this and much more. Ideally, I would like to interview you as well. Or, if you're part of a charitable organization or shelter, someone who could speak in an official capacity on behalf of that organization.

Good for you in tackling this important topic.

Please share your findings widely (with media, and with this forum), its a sorely needed discussion.

I can't offer any special insight.

Though from my limited experience, I think there are a number of folks out their suffering from mental illness; but perhaps just as many suffering from feeling abandoned, or hopeless and just clinging on.

Portions of the answer lie in better, and more accessible mental health supports; and various tools to fight poverty.

But perhaps just as much is finding a way to give someone who needs it, an advocate at the least, and perhaps also a friend.

That the homeless woman I alluded to above was non-nonchalantly told there was no room on a sub-zero night is unforgivable to me. But its not the absence of the official bed that offends me most, its the absence of someone failing to sense their obligation to find this person a warm place to shelter, even if it were less than ideal.

 

[Neutrino]

@MTown Thank you for willing to help me out. I will be reaching out to you shortly over private message to discuss further.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I don’t like the term panhandling. They’re beggars, just the same as the beggars we see in poverty stricken nations abroad. Our local beggars shouldn’t get a different term.

The solutions to begging are close at hand. In Sweden begging is predicted to essentially vanish as they moved to a cashless economy. That doesn’t eliminate the need or the means to help those who were begging, as those in need seek help from charities and government services that are funded by the same folks who previously gave to beggars.

An immediate small fix is enforcement of the Safe Streets Act and HTA, preventing beggars from entering the road space to beg at car windows.

And just to clarify, I’m not some heartless Scrurge-like character who wants to open work houses, et al. But the Canadian and Ontario homeless industrial complex needs to be shaken up, since we’re paying millions in taxes and donations to fix an issue, with little result. Around my home in downtown east there must the hundreds if not thousands of people who make their living on the perpetuation of homelessness, mental illness and addiction, but have no accountability or measurable goals connected to reducing homelessness (and begging) in order to get their continued funding.

The US has similar issues...

The Homeless Industrial Complex Problem
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/carey-fuller/the-homeless-industrial-c_b_9092426.html

Is There a Homeless Industrial Complex That Perpetuates Homelessness?
http://www.povertyinsights.org/2013/08/05/is-there-a-homeless-industrial-complex-that-perpetuates-homelessness/

 

[Rusty]

An interesting panhandling incident. I was on my bike at Sherbourne and Dundas. A short, thin woman I had seen approaching cars for change went to the car beside me. The female driver rummaged through her purse and console and handed the panhandler a fistful of change. She then drove off as the light changed. The panhandler went to the curb and threw all the nickle and dimes in the gutter and approached the next car. I was astounded.