News   Apr 19, 2024
DRP Reviews Innovative Affordable Housing at Kennedy Station
 383     2 
News   Apr 19, 2024
Lifetime Helping Craft the Future of Toronto's Neighbourhoods
 709     3 
News   Apr 19, 2024
Shimmering Skyline
 744     1 

2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

Would a temporary coalition between the Liberals and the Green Party get "party status"? For four years, have a Liberal-Green Party? Would "red" still be used in the party correspondence?

Or would they spend years over the name order and colour selection?
 
Last edited:
steveintoronto said:
I've wondered whether a coalition of the Greens with the Libs would allow that status, or would the marriage of convenience be too offensive to someone espousing the real Love of Nature?..
Click to expand...

Never mind nature, it's offensive to us Greens because of our love of financial sustainability.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I am less sanguine - in any election scenario, Greens tend to draw votes away from the traditional centre-left and not centre-right.
Click to expand...

Though remember that Elizabeth May struck "deals" with the federal Liberals--like, for them to withdraw their candidacy when May ran in Central Nova.

I wouldn't be *entirely* surprised if Schreiner opted into a Lib-Green "OPS alliance"; and to be honest, he *did* win Guelph in part as a Liberal proxy, given the seat's recent electoral history. (Also, IIRC Tory populist Bill Murdoch offered to caucus with the NDP during their brief 2003-4 7-seat interlude--but that offer was made redundant once Horwath was byelected into Queen's Park.)
 
BurlOak said:
Rae took things far left, Harris corrected by going right, then McGuinty and Wynne progressively kept going left again.

Is was relatively easy for Frost, Robarts, Davis since they had competent, stable predecessors.
Click to expand...

I've said it before; but your idea of political "centrism" is akin to declaring Robert Bateman to be artistic "centrism" (and that institutions like the AGO have long fallen prey to radicalism a la colour-field abstraction and giant cloth hamburgers and whatnot)
 
adma said:
Though remember that Elizabeth May struck "deals" with the federal Liberals--like, for them to withdraw their candidacy when May ran in Central Nova.

I wouldn't be *entirely* surprised if Schreiner opted into a Lib-Green "OPS alliance"; and to be honest, he *did* win Guelph in part as a Liberal proxy, given the seat's recent electoral history. (Also, IIRC Tory populist Bill Murdoch offered to caucus with the NDP during their brief 2003-4 7-seat interlude--but that offer was made redundant once Horwath was byelected into Queen's Park.)
Click to expand...

OK, first of all, May's Central Nova ploy is incomparable to anything here. Second of all, the party membership was not entirely on board with that tactic.

Schreiner as a Liberal proxy? Maybe the people of Guelph opened their eyes, ears, and minds and had an epiphany. Liberal proxy, my eye.

The provincial Liberals are not seen in a good light in the Green Party, I can assure you of this as a former insider.

I know that any structural change to the status quo is hard to bear for many, but I implore everyone to believe in the inherent value of meaningful progression and change.
 
adma said:
Though remember that Elizabeth May struck "deals" with the federal Liberals--like, for them to withdraw their candidacy when May ran in Central Nova.

I wouldn't be *entirely* surprised if Schreiner opted into a Lib-Green "OPS alliance"; and to be honest, he *did* win Guelph in part as a Liberal proxy, given the seat's recent electoral history. (Also, IIRC Tory populist Bill Murdoch offered to caucus with the NDP during their brief 2003-4 7-seat interlude--but that offer was made redundant once Horwath was byelected into Queen's Park.)
Click to expand...
On this point, we're in total agreement. This (in an abstract form, Green-Lib Alliance per-se not discussed) was being analyzed in yet another superb discussion on The Agenda:

I was just about to send the link to an American lawyer friend who can't believe what's unfolding in Ontario. Gist: "Didn't you folks learn from our awful experience down here?". My answer: (gist) "Cdns huffed 'that could never happen here', and it did".

What's highly notable, amongst other things, one of which is what Adma brings up and I fully concur (Schreiner's speech in Guelph alludes to this, albeit in generalities) (I've erased the link off my taskbar, I'll link it later) is the incredible success of the ravishing Ms Erin Kelly's "Pollie" AI analysis and how so many of the polls were wildly wrong. This is discussed in detail in the Agenda link above. And why. There are aspects of the Facebook imbroglio that are dark and frightening (and the Cdn press yet again has lost focus on this, the UK press is burning with it) but as with hackers, there's 'white hats', and 'black hats' and with polling, 'Pollie' is a white hat. But listen closely to what Kelly says and writes about it. 'Pollie' has proven to be very correct in poll after poll internationally, not just in Canada.

Much more on this string of discussion later when I'm more prepared with quotes and links. The OntLibs are taking a walk in the snow, in Siberia...but this means resurrection is actually easier to start fresh and different, and to take a cue or more from the Greens in how to retake The Centre.

Kelly makes a profound point on those who voted for Ford, she specifically analyzed this: (gist) "They (most) knew what they were voting for". Something to deeply ponder.

Edit to Add: Further to @adma 's point: Googling for a link to reference per above, a lot shows, but this is indicative of Schreiner's....'potency' as a peacemaker and easily able to reach across 'the aisle' as the Americans say:

‘I know his passion’: Guelph mayor looks forward to working with Green MPP
https://globalnews.ca/news/4262386/guelph-mayor-green-mpp/

I was about to send an email to Cam, I know him personally, he's a good drummer! But he's also a *pragmatic and non-rigid* Conservative...albeit softened in his years as Guelph's Mayor, to congratulate Guelph on voting this way. It's wonderfully non-partisan as to what's happening in Guelph.

And thanks to Kathleen Wynne in a convoluted way for Liz Sandals knowing when to throw in the towel and fertilize the lot. That was necessary for fresh growth.

Guelph is on the map in a way that it hasn't been for decades, and for many of the right reasons. More on this later...
 
Last edited:
Avenue said:
Just go away
Click to expand...

What, am I not allowed to gloat? Remember, I had to endure weeks of derision and ridicule on this forum just for stating what would have been obvious to anyone who dear venture outside of the downtown Toronto bubble.

Your own post which I was responding to insinuated that I was "desperate" to assume the PCs would get 74 seats and the combined Lib/NDP/Green would be 50. Guess what happened? Even a bigger margin of victory.

If I seem a bit self-congratulatory... tough!

steveintoronto said:
Can we count you as still being amongst the majority in wishing for a 'Choice at Centre'? I don't know if the Libs can ever regain that ground, or even if ideologically, morally.

There's a massive hole at Centre...and I take a lot of the rationale for Horwath "reclaiming her party's natural ground" as getting her the vote as baseless. Any party that had staked out Centre would have won if they were the only ones.

It might be time for the Libs to dissolve as is, and I think the Cons will be facing this too in four years, and Ontario presented with a blank canvas to start again. That may be emotional on my part, history certainly shows this rout isn't as unique as some claim, and I'm still a bit shell shocked, not from the outcome alone, but from the events leading up to it. The trainwreck happened in slow motion.

On a related but interesting aside, anyone following The Agenda saw a very bright star emerge in the stunningly beautiful and bright Erin Kelly's "Polly" AI model for predicting poll outcomes.
Erin Kelly, CPA,CMA - President and CEO - Advanced Symbolics

Usually someone so effusive and attractive tends to behave subjectively (pardon my presumption) due to the easy ride on those assets, but she was incredibly objective and analytical throughout, and incredibly prescient.

She just boosted her career in multiples. But of course, she could have predicted that...
Click to expand...

Of course. I want a centrist government just as much as anyone. With Wynne and Horwath pivoting to the far left, there really wasn't anywhere for Blue Liberals to go but towards Ford's PCs. I think as the PCs' reelection aspirations settle in they'll start to appear more centrist in their policies.
 
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1528495875

I like the line from Andrew Coyne that the PC's are just as big spending, but maybe slightly less.

Hopkins123 said:
Of course. I want a centrist government just as much as anyone. With Wynne and Horwath pivoting to the far left, there really wasn't anywhere for Blue Liberals to go but towards Ford's PCs. I think as the PCs' reelection aspirations settle in they'll start to appear more centrist in their policies.
Click to expand...

Will Doug be a right wing populist and suck up to the SoCons? I see it happening already.
 
I take @Hopkins123 at his word.
Hopkins123 said:
Of course. I want a centrist government just as much as anyone. With Wynne and Horwath pivoting to the far left, there really wasn't anywhere for Blue Liberals to go but towards Ford's PCs. I think as the PCs' reelection aspirations settle in they'll start to appear more centrist in their policies.
Click to expand...
Your view, according to 'Pollie' (
) was majority sentiment of the PC voters.

The election is over, we all have to find common ground to move forward, and I've found solace in Guelph's situation. The Seeds of Centrism have been planted and the Arboretum there can only be a good thing to make it grow.

If the Cons don't move to Centre, others will. To be continued in four years...lol...but we can talk about it now.
 
Hopkins123 said:
I want a centrist government just as much as anyone. With Wynne and Horwath pivoting to the far left, there really wasn't anywhere for Blue Liberals to go but towards Ford's PCs. I think as the PCs' reelection aspirations settle in they'll start to appear more centrist in their policies.
Click to expand...

Dude, you had a centrist government with Wynne's Liberals. To quote the Princess Bride, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
 
  • Like
Reactions: syn
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top