Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[pman]

Could someone explain to me, why Scarborough needs three additional subway stations in its center?

Seems that Etobicoke Centre is more worthy of subways than Scarborough Centre, based on the above "proposed residential units".

Because SSE has nothing to do with data, analysis, or rational planning. It's entirely about suburban grievance and identity, along with the horror of transferring at Kennedy, which is of course totally unacceptable.

 

[coffey1]

Employers are still not going to move there though. It's downtown, or the suburbs for most companies. My point is Bloor won't be the backbone once Eglinton and the DRL are built. Truly Eglinton, should have been a subway from Pearson to Kennedy or STC. Would have solved a lot of problems.

Thats not what I implied. Employers will be more apt to use Scarborough as a "satellite hub" with ease to move employees to and from. It will be much more attractive for commuters, & therefore developers to get to and from the core. And therefore will build a more attractive base for people to reside. When this occurs you have some value. Employers will invest only if they see value, the quality of the developer and development will also depend on the value. There also has to be tax breaks or incentives for company to invest outside of the golden egg. But thats another topic. In any case it will be very attractive for high quality growth at the Center of any area which absolutely needs that.

Segregating on an a separate technology lowers attractiveness & convenience. Certainly not an effective solution for a groth node in this Cit. As mentioned Y&E is not Downtown and never will be. Having an East-West Eglinton LRT line is great for East Scarborough thru the center for the City and suburbs. Having the City Center connected to downtown is worth every penny for the reasons mentioned and much more.

This plans solves problems much more effective better than any other. Especially when you add in teh Scarborough-Durham BRT across Ellesmere (or likely now City Center) and whatever is decided upon Sheppard.

 

[Hopkins123]

Y&E is NOT the center of Toronto. Never was...never will be. The geographical center is actually pretty close to Yonge & Lawrence (just east of Yonge). The political center is either at Queens Park or City Hall. The business center is King and Bay. The medical center is College and University. The shopping centre is on Yonge between Bloor and Queen. Y&E is a bunch of condos and a couple of offices. And a future subterranean connection that those from Scarborough will use but not leave the fare paid area. I would not be buying a shop there in the hopes that the people from Scarborough will get off to buy your goods.

The reason why Yonge and Bloor is busy outside and inside is the number of offices and shopping options near the intersection. Yonge & Eglinton simply does not have this.

Eglinton is the longest continuous street corridor east-west throughout Toronto though. 80 north-south bus routes interface with it, making it very appealing from an interconnectivity standpoint.

I can see the appeal therefore in making Yonge-Eglinton the new major crossroads of the City.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Thats not what I implied. Employers will be more apt to use Scarborough as a "satellite hub" with ease to move employees to and from. It will be much more attractive for commuters, & therefore developers to get to and from the core. And therefore will build a more attractive base for people to reside. When this occurs you have some value. Employers will invest only if they see value, the quality of the developer and development will also depend on the value. There also has to be tax breaks or incentives for company to invest outside of the golden egg. But thats another topic. In any case it will be very attractive for high quality growth at the Center of any area which absolutely needs that.

Segregating on an a separate technology lowers attractiveness & convenience. Certainly not an effective solution for a groth node in this Cit. As mentioned Y&E is not Downtown and never will be. Having an East-West Eglinton LRT line is great for East Scarborough thru the center for the City and suburbs. Having the City Center connected to downtown is worth every penny for the reasons mentioned and much more.

This plans solves problems much more effective better than any other. Especially when you add in teh Scarborough-Durham BRT across Ellesmere (or likely now City Center) and whatever is decided upon Sheppard.

If it was about segregation then McGuinty would not have killed the SRT Crosstown connection. Until the tax breaks come, as you mentioned, movement won't happen. Right now it's downtown, or Burlington, Markham, Whitby, Richmond Hill, etc. The geographic center of the city is close to Y/E and you still have to transfer at Bloor Yonge to get downtown. You're still transferring.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Y&E is NOT the center of Toronto. Never was...never will be. The geographical center is actually pretty close to Yonge & Lawrence (just east of Yonge). The political center is either at Queens Park or City Hall. The business center is King and Bay. The medical center is College and University. The shopping centre is on Yonge between Bloor and Queen. Y&E is a bunch of condos and a couple of offices. And a future subterranean connection that those from Scarborough will use but not leave the fare paid area. I would not be buying a shop there in the hopes that the people from Scarborough will get off to buy your goods.

The reason why Yonge and Bloor is busy outside and inside is the number of offices and shopping options near the intersection. Yonge & Eglinton simply does not have this.

Eglinton is the longest continuous street corridor east-west throughout Toronto though. 80 north-south bus routes interface with it, making it very appealing from an interconnectivity standpoint.

I can see the appeal therefore in making Yonge-Eglinton the new major crossroads of the City.

Exactly Hopkins!

 

[coffey1]

Could someone explain to me, why Scarborough needs three additional subway stations in its center?

Seems that Etobicoke Centre is more worthy of subways than Scarborough Centre, based on the above "proposed residential units".

Complete utter nonsense.

Ask yourself why would a developer build at SCC right now? No one knows where the transit is going to be built or the quality. Developers are all holding tight on to the parcels of land for this charade to end. And none of them want to market around the RT in its current form.

Your data is heavily skewed to fit a false narrative and your 'facts' are baseless & not certainly useless when you refuse to consider the current climate.

 

[coffey1]

If it was about segregation then McGuinty would not have killed the SRT Crosstown connection. Until the tax breaks come, as you mentioned, movement won't happen. Right now it's downtown, or Burlington, Markham, Whitby, Richmond Hill, etc. The geographic center of the city is close to Y/E and you still have to transfer at Bloor Yonge to get downtown. You're still transferring.

We agree on most of this. The Geographic Center is not the Economic Center and where we disagree is what is the most effective way to connect to these Centers. The SSE & Eglinton Crosstown is much more appealing to commuters and business.

Add a Sheppard subway loop, a Malvern LRT extension, and completion of the Scar-Durham BRT and we have a pretty exceptional network. Even if Sheppard is reverted to LRT and we have a local LRT loop its still very good... although that would cause further debate for the SSE to be extended to Sheppard.

The current plan is very good. And for those who have been washed with "facts" and political bias in an attempt to convince Torontoians that Scarborough Center should remain on a segregated infrastructure I would suggest they are actually going to benefit in the future when large numbers of Scarborough residents begin to share the same political concerns over transit operations & maintenance. Because right now most of Scarborough could care less about the TTC and the "others" network as most wont ride TTC unless they are forced to. Might take a couple decades but a SSE and Eglinton Crosstown will be a great start.

Ford & Mcguinty gave the Eglinton to SCC some life but council shot it down. That was the last chance for that decent plan but now theres a better footprint on the table and I see no reason to tear it up aside from make it elevated to be more cost effective and add stops

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We agree on most of this. The Geographic Center is not the Economic Center and where we disagree is what is the most effective way to connect to these Centers. The SSE, Eglinton Crosstown is much more appealing to commuters and business.

Add a Sheppard subway loop, a Malvern LRT extension, and completion of the Scar-Durham BRT and we have a pretty exceptional network. Even if Sheppard is reverted to LRT and we have a local LRT loop its still very good... although that would cause further debate for the SSE to be extended to Sheppard.

The current plan is very good. And for those who have been washed with "facts" and political bias trying to convince Torontoians that Scarborough Center should remain on a segregated infrastructure I would suggest they are actually going to benefit in the future when large numbers of Scarborough residents begin to share the same political concerns over transit operational & maintenance. Because right now most of Scarborough could care less about the TTC and the "others" network in the unless they are forced to use it. Might take time a couple decades but a SSE and Eglinton Crosstown will be a great start.

Ford & Mcguinty gave the Eglinton to SCC some life but council shot it down. Thats was the last chance for that decent plan but now theres a better footprint on the table and I see no reason to tear it up aside from make it elevated to be more cost effective and add stops

Agreed. I just want something down, in the ground, no more games.

 

[BurlOak]

The other one was using a non-LIM non-MkIII rolling stock for an upgraded (but still standalone) Line 3.

I doubt a stand alone Line 3 would fly politically. If anyone would propose such a thing, the decision would just be reversed after the subsequent provincial or municipal election.
What is needed it to connect the Line with Eglinton. It can't be done with on-street LRT since it doesn't have the capacity, and it likely can't be changed to grade-separated because planning for the on-street ECLRT has progressed too far.
The other option is for this standalone line to go all the way downtown. To save money, it would mostly be elevated. If someone has great imagination they may be able to persuade the public that this is at least as good, if not better, than the B-D subway extension.

 

[Palma]

Y&E is NOT the center of Toronto. Never was...never will be. The geographical center is actually pretty close to Yonge & Lawrence (just east of Yonge). The political center is either at Queens Park or City Hall. The business center is King and Bay. The medical center is College and University. The shopping centre is on Yonge between Bloor and Queen. Y&E is a bunch of condos and a couple of offices. And a future subterranean connection that those from Scarborough will use but not leave the fare paid area. I would not be buying a shop there in the hopes that the people from Scarborough will get off to buy your goods.

The reason why Yonge and Bloor is busy outside and inside is the number of offices and shopping options near the intersection. Yonge & Eglinton simply does not have this.

Eglinton is the longest continuous street corridor east-west throughout Toronto though. 80 north-south bus routes interface with it, making it very appealing from an interconnectivity standpoint.

I can see the appeal therefore in making Yonge-Eglinton the new major crossroads of the City.

Of course. Lawrence and Yonge is too far north and there is nothing along Lawrence than detached houses till you get to new town homes being built near Lawrence West, some 3 level triplexes, couple of condos and new condo high rise at Dufferin. There are no shops along Lawrence till you get to west of Dufferin and then marble and ceramic store but thats it. Walmart at Keele. Lawrence has nothing. How can it possibly be the centre? For sure it is Eglinton

 

[sixrings]

Lawrence can't have a crosstown because of th bridlepath so although it may be technically centre it has never had much development.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Lawrence can't have a crosstown because of th bridlepath so although it may be technically centre it has never had much development.

The folks from the Bridlepath couldn't agree you better.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

We should build an elevated Subway through the bridle path.

 

[crs1026]

We should build an elevated Subway through the bridle path.

Isnt that why Drake cut down all those trees?

- Paul

 

[ssiguy2]

Assuming they work the bugs out of their technology right?

You forgot to mention the "trains" are less than half the size of our trains and in fact closer in size to our streetcars and the "stations" are nothing more than glorified open air bus shelters. Waiting out in the winter cold might be fine for minor league cities like Vancouver but it's the big leagues here.

If it's good enough for the tony residents of Rosedale then why can't it be for the people of Scarborough?
Also, it's true that the Vancouver SkyTrain capacity is lower but that strictly due to the size of the stations. Build even 100 meter stations and you have a very high capacity system. The new MK111 are gorgeous and completely articulated like the new subway trains. They can run at frequency of up to every 80 seconds. To put that into perspective, a 95 meter station is the equivalent of running 9 MK1 cars every 80 seconds.