Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
I saw Premier Wynne today at the Pride and Remembrance Run. When I asked her about the Scarborough Subway, she was all smiles and said she can't wait to see it built
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coffey1
Active Member
We'd be moving forward if it wasn't for the City's Transit rich Party's "my way or the highway" stance towards any other option outside of Segregated City. When you keep your heads in the sand and refuse to listen to the people outside of your own area and refuse to work together for a comprised solution youll certainly be at a standstill. But why share in the blame when you can blame Scarborough and control that message without a fair debate? Id love to see a better solution but unfortunately the Left has yet to back down from repeating anything but their poorly designed plan. There is a high level of denial that this really is the case.
When it comes to the media. You'll never get it. Nor would you ever care to. This a HUGE issue that has been ignored. The media, is beyond irresponsible when reporting on events within Scarborough compared to other areas of the City, which is likely a bi-product of a bigger issue in that they have Politcal motives for the areas outside of Scarborough and Toronto's suburbs.
It's about the start of some inclusiveness, respect and acceptance for the City as a whole. Sorry these type of words and the cost associated to obtain them offend some of you
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BurlOak
Senior Member
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coffey1
Active Member
We'll call It "Genius-track" and have someone campaign on it next election. Although a plan like this would have to come from someone near the middle like Tory himself. The Left has been unbreakable with the DRL & a transfer laden LRT plan for the suburbs while "Ford" seems almost unbreakable with subways although his brother did agree to a hybrid Sheppard subway & ECLRT. Id be truly shocked to see either of those Extreme's doing anything too intelligent come campaign time. But then again an intelligent compromise may be their only chance to beat Tory.
All kidding & Politics aside its really cool idea.
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Steve X
Senior Member
FYI, most politicians are liars.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Maybe the key is construction time. It is probably at least 2 years of EA study before Scarborough Subway can begin construction. Then construction is probably 6 years. This Subway plan is still in its infancy and a switch to any other plan would take no longer than this subway. Although trying to switch to the Transit City LRT plan would likely lead to significant delays beyond this as we bounce from 1 extreme to the other.
coffey1
Active Member
I don't see any way the SLRT is ever even considered. It had its chance & is dead as dead can be Politically. But that certainly doesn't mean another plan with some common sense cant be developed.
The Sheppard LRT and it's big transfer wart has new life thanks to the Crosstown extension giving it some purpose as a local loop so it will likely proceed.
Riverdale Rink Rat
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You should take this proposal to Ford's Portlands NFL / Olympics fantasists or Markham's NHL fantasists. An Olympic stadium and the athlete's village would be a win/win of entertainment and affordable housing, PLUS a one-stop subway!
Might be difficult to fit all that into your $500M cost envelope. Also, imagine all the construction complaining as the folks that would normally shop at STC have to park on the other side of a big hole in the ground for 10 years.
Quite frankly, I think an enormous amount of the 'we need respect of a subway' crowd have no interest in either a subway nor an LRT, but think the subway construction will be entirely underground (it won't) and LRT would cut into their precious driving lanes (it won't). The reason a 1-stop subway is acceptable to a huge swath of the 'respect for Scarberia' crowd is due to the fact they have no intention of ever riding on said subway, so they don't want or need stops to get on or off.
Finally, stadiums in suburbs don't promote development. Ever. The number of studies of this by economists the world over number in the hundreds. Why would STC be the exception?
Riverdale Rink Rat
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C'mon, you're being beyond ridiculous. I went for a long bike ride through 'west Scarborough' (Clairlea) a couple of days ago, and there's zero chance any of the good burghers of there, or Guildwood, or West Hill, or the neighbourhoods near the Zoo have any need or want for the 'respect' of a subway to STC. I doubt they even think in those terms. The lack of respect for Scarborough is in your head, and nowhere else.
crs1026
Senior Member
No doubt. A lot of the "downtown doesn't respect the suburbs" mentality (and it's not unique to Scarborough, one hears the same thing in Etobicoke) is because suburbanites feel they have paid good money to be insulated from change. That just isn't realistic, nor is the current suburban way of life sustainable. When City Hall simply poses the question of "how would you like to deal with impending changes?' the suburbanites cry "go away". City Hall is not claiming any elitist high ground, or imposing a solution, (well, not usually.... the Miller era was guilty of this at times) it is simply asking important questions about realities that suburbanites don't want to face (The non-sustainability of auto traffic as the way we get around being a leading issue).
OK, maybe a stadium isn't the answer. I'm still thinking that the solution to the never ending Scarboro Subway debate is to give Scarboro something that is flashy (and sustainable) to restore their status, so they lose focus on transit. A stadium is just more appealing to the average person than, say, a particle accelerator researh facility.
- Paul
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coffey1
Active Member
While large areas of Etobicoke (mostly to the north) have been neglected. And I would advocate for the areas left out any day. For the most part they have a subway line that almost reaches the border a Kipling. Scarborough is much larger and even the SSE wont come close to the border but atleast slight more Central. Etobicoke also has a seamless lakeshore streetcar than runs along the entire shore which has helped spur some development and will need upgraded as investment spurs investment. The streetcar on the East Side ends at Scarborough. Right at Scarborough.
You can't compare. And to say Scarborough doesn't want subways? Overall the majority want lots actually. But at a minimum we expect an integrated plan which includes what is must include growth Center. Sure Scarborough is a big place and youll find many differing views. But overall its clear. People are pissed at the inequity and the strong attempt from the "transit haves" to ensure we keep some form of it.
Stadiums? One thing at time.. Although if we are dreaming up stadiums the best ROI would likely be a state of the art a multi sport cricket stadium in Scarborough. But lets just extend the subway and fix the heavily flawed LRT design first.
You can't compare. And to say Scarborough doesn't want subways? Overall the majority want lots actually. But at a minimum we expect an integrated plan which includes what is must include growth Center. Sure Scarborough is a big place and youll find many differing views. But overall its clear. People are pissed at the inequity and the strong attempt from the "transit haves" to ensure we keep some form of it.
Stadiums? One thing at time.. Although if we are dreaming up stadiums the best ROI would likely be a state of the art a multi sport cricket stadium in Scarborough. But lets just extend the subway and fix the heavily flawed LRT design first.
crs1026
Senior Member
Etobicoke's subway is a good example of a subway that didn't do anything for development. Six Points remains a wasteland. The GO service is what got development started there. And it's just as arduous a bus ride to get downtown from Rexdale or Albion as it is to reach STC from north Scarborough.
As for the Lakeshore streetcar, it isn't seamless, and it hasn't fed development either. Again, it's no better an option to reach downtown than the McCowan bus. The only development west of Humber Bay is around the Long Branch GO station, where some industrial land has been repurposed into town homes. Again, GO, not the streetcar accomplished that. Humber Bay got developed on the basis of access to the Gardiner and Lakeshore Blvd. Connectivity to the subway is poor.
The Kingston Road streetcar to Birchmount got cut back when - 1954? That's a bit old to cite as anti-Scarboro sentiment.
- Paul
sixrings
Senior Member
"The Kingston Road streetcar to Birchmount got cut back when - 1954? That's a bit old to cite as anti-Scarboro sentiment." apparently all of Toronto has been anti-scarberia for a very very long time yet people continue to move and live there. One shouldn't blame the current government for not wanting to spend 4 billion on a one stop subway, when a DRL is needed, but should be blaming the government which put the RT in to begin with.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
I never understood why that area was a wasteland for so long
junctionist
Senior Member
I disagree. All these towers built from the late 1960s through the 2000s were likely built because of the proximity to the subway. There's a substantial node of office towers, apartment buildings and condo towers around both Islington and Kipling stations.