Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[Forgotten]

I agree that we need the Big 'J' asap, the 'BJ' I'll call it, pun intended. The bigger issue is connectivity of DRL to GO RER/Smart Track. I see the connections in the east with Gerard and Unilever stations, but not in the west. To increase frequencies and reduce passenger bottlenecks, we need a transit hub in the west, not just at Unilever. I suggest just east of Bathurst and Front, since Spadina and Front is unfeasible. The result would be a satellite smaller Union-type station in the west, and one in the east.

Have you been living under a rock for the past few months? The chief planner has said your input is valued but not necessary. She foresees no need to pander to the alleged needs you've brought up. What's important is to build subways to protect the hypothetical market for Tory's idiotic SmartTrack. That's why the Scarborough subway is in shambles atm and it's also why the downtown subway is going to put stations under homeless shelters and vape stores. Sad to say that's what happens when city planning has a monopoly on studies, EAs and TPAPs.

 

[andrewpmk]

All the real power related to transportation planning seems to be held by Metrolinx nowadays. The city has far less power than they did a few years ago. "SmartTrack" is basically dead now, and I'm sure that the DRL will be a Metrolinx project if it is ever built.

 

[MisterF]

All the real power related to transportation planning seems to be held by Metrolinx nowadays. The city has far less power than they did a few years ago. "SmartTrack" is basically dead now, and I'm sure that the DRL will be a Metrolinx project if it is ever built.

Considering the city's success rate in building any of the various versions of the DRL over the last century, that's probably a good thing. Why net let Metrolinx give it a go? If in 2116 there's still no DRL, the city can take over the project again.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Considering the city's success rate in building any of the various versions of the DRL over the last century, that's probably a good thing. Why net let Metrolinx give it a go? If in 2116 there's still no DRL, the city can take over the project again.

The Relief Line is a City of Toronto project. Metrolinx has next to no involvement, and they've indicated no interest in taking it over. Their major participation in that project ended with the Yonge Relief Network Study last year. Same can be said about the Scarborough Subway. The only project Metrolinx has direct involvement in is Crosstown, Finch and Sheppard.

Heck, even Crosstown East and West are being spearheaded by Toronto City Planning, with the TTC likely building it, depending on the preliminary construction schedule they bring forward in June.

 

[Adjei]

The Relief Line is a City of Toronto project. Metrolinx has next to no involvement, and they've indicated no interest in taking it over. Their major participation in that project ended with the Yonge Relief Network Study last year. Same can be said about the Scarborough Subway. The only project Metrolinx has direct involvement in is Crosstown, Finch and Sheppard.

Heck, even Crosstown East and West are being spearheaded by Toronto City Planning, with the TTC likely building it, depending on the preliminary construction schedule they bring forward in June.

I'll like to have some of you what you smoking. This is the same kind of thinking that people thought with SmartTrack. Now it's being handled by Metrolinx.

Toronto has no money to build those projects you listed. If they did, those projects would have been built by long time ago.

The DRL is a project listed as a next wave project by Metrolinx. Toronto City planning can plan all the lines they want. Until the province and Feds show up to pay for it, nothing is getting built.

The DRL will be built by Metrolinx. So will the two extensions to the Crosstown, as they are just extension to the the crosstown line they are building and not entirely new line. Without the province and metrolinx taking to lead and building the lines, nothing gets built.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'll like to have some of you what you smoking. This is the same kind of thinking that people thought with SmartTrack. Now it's being handled by Metrolinx.

Toronto has no money to build those projects you listed. If they did, those projects would have been built by long time ago.

The DRL is a project listed as a next wave project by Metrolinx. Toronto City planning can plan all the lines they want. Until the province and Feds show up to pay for it, nothing is getting built.

The DRL will be built by Metrolinx. So will the two extensions to the Crosstown, as they are just extension to the the crosstown line they are building and not entirely new line. Without the province and metrolinx taking to lead and building the lines, nothing gets built.

Uh huh.

 

[WislaHD]

As far as I know, Metrolinx is still studying the Relief Line independently from the city.

The Yonge Relief Network Study isn't the final stage of their evaluations.

 

[44 North]

I'll like to have some of you what you smoking. This is the same kind of thinking that people thought with SmartTrack. Now it's being handled by Metrolinx.

Toronto has no money to build those projects you listed. If they did, those projects would have been built by long time ago.

The DRL is a project listed as a next wave project by Metrolinx. Toronto City planning can plan all the lines they want. Until the province and Feds show up to pay for it, nothing is getting built.

The DRL will be built by Metrolinx. So will the two extensions to the Crosstown, as they are just extension to the the crosstown line they are building and not entirely new line. Without the province and metrolinx taking to lead and building the lines, nothing gets built.

I kinda want to say I'll have what you're smoking...but it might be PCP, considering the ludicrousness. It's already been made clear that the DRL is a City/TTC project, and will use standard Toronto subways. That's not Metrolinx's jurisdiction. And even if they could be trusted with such a project (which they're attempting w/ their half-cocked and unworkable YRNS schemes), it's pretty clear to many that Metrolinx is a pawn of sorts, one being used by McWynne to win votes. So if the Prov Libs suddenly decide they don't want the DRL because it costs too much and doesn't win them seats (not surprising), or if before next election Wynne w/out warning rolls out promises for subways to uninhabited pastures in 905 country (again, not surprising) - then I think it's in our best interest to not have them involved. They've already proven their incompetency and intransigence.

Might come as a shock, but changing transit plans didn't start/end with Rob Ford. The Big Move is a shell of its former self, way behind schedule, way underfunded, and continually changing. Toronto City council had little to do with that. And just as much of the newfound RER grand plan scheme either got upgraded in the Big Move (or simply came out of nowhere after being rejected years ago), I really can't see why the same couldn't happen with the DRL. But since ~2019 was its projected start date, it seems we're almost on schedule.

And plus, Mlinx doesn't hold the purse strings, and has very little involvement with TO planning. Nor does their lack of transparency, closed-door attitude, flip-flopping while at Wynne's beck and call, etc automatically make them supreme leaders of transit planning. But the kicker is that without the City's DRL, y'all can kiss bye-bye to extending Yonge north of Steeles (which quelle surprise is also not a Metrolinx project).

 

[Adjei]

I kinda want to say I'll have what you're smoking...but it might be PCP, considering the ludicrousness. It's already been made clear that the DRL is a City/TTC project, and will use standard Toronto subways. That's not Metrolinx's jurisdiction. And even if they could be trusted with such a project (which they're attempting w/ their half-cocked and unworkable YRNS schemes), it's pretty clear to many that Metrolinx is a pawn of sorts, one being used by McWynne to win votes. So if the Prov Libs suddenly decide they don't want the DRL because it costs too much and doesn't win them seats (not surprising), or if before next election Wynne w/out warning rolls out promises for subways to uninhabited pastures in 905 country (again, not surprising) - then I think it's in our best interest to not have them involved. They've already proven their incompetency and intransigence.

Might come as a shock, but changing transit plans didn't start/end with Rob Ford. The Big Move is a shell of its former self, way behind schedule, way underfunded, and continually changing. Toronto City council had little to do with that. And just as much of the newfound RER grand plan scheme either got upgraded in the Big Move (or simply came out of nowhere after being rejected years ago), I really can't see why the same couldn't happen with the DRL. But since ~2019 was its projected start date, it seems we're almost on schedule.

And plus, Mlinx doesn't hold the purse strings, and has very little involvement with TO planning. Nor does their lack of transparency, closed-door attitude, flip-flopping while at Wynne's beck and call, etc automatically make them supreme leaders of transit planning. But the kicker is that without the City's DRL, y'all can kiss bye-bye to extending Yonge north of Steeles (which quelle surprise is also not a Metrolinx project).

Ok keep deluding yourself. Toronto has no money to pay for these projects. When the comes for these projects to be actually built and not studied which is all Toronto knows how to do we will see who will be running things.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Metrolinx designated a portion of the Relief Line, from Bloor downtown, as a top priority in The Big Move, which coincided with calls from Andy Byford that it needed to be built ASAP. They are responsible for giving the bureaucracy a legitimate document to point to in describing the Relief Line's urgency.

They also made some initial ridership estimates, which have given ammo to the case for the big J (no I'm not calling it the other thing, Euphoria).

Beyond that, the EA is being completed by the City of Toronto. That is one of the major boxes to be checked in a transit project. Furthermore, the EA has determined a corridor and stations, and is determining an exact alignment. That is the furthest we have ever come on a proper Relief Line that is underground, operating heavy rail metro trains.

The last major hurdle will be securing funds. City Council is being less bone-headed than usual. The province, despite holding the plan, is strapped for cash. But the feds just gave us $850 million for state of good repair, and that was only Phase 1.

But that is beside the point. I would only credit Metrolinx for facilitating the conversation, which we can debate about the importance of. City staff have done most of the tangible nitty-gritty.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The citizens need to stop the BS and do what must be done - i.e. raise the funds for a DRL. If the city can decide to raise taxes to build the BD extension or work the Gardiner into its' budget it surely can afford to do the same to help build the DRL. Stop wasting time and wait for the stars at the provincial and federal level to align for you.

AoD

 

[andrewpmk]

I'll like to have some of you what you smoking. This is the same kind of thinking that people thought with SmartTrack. Now it's being handled by Metrolinx.

Toronto has no money to build those projects you listed. If they did, those projects would have been built by long time ago.

The DRL is a project listed as a next wave project by Metrolinx. Toronto City planning can plan all the lines they want. Until the province and Feds show up to pay for it, nothing is getting built.

The DRL will be built by Metrolinx. So will the two extensions to the Crosstown, as they are just extension to the the crosstown line they are building and not entirely new line. Without the province and metrolinx taking to lead and building the lines, nothing gets built.

My impression is that the DRL has no funding because the province has decided to spend over $10 billion on GO RER, and has been forced to privatize Hydro One and impose cap-and-trade in order to pay for it. If the proposed 407 freight bypass and the electrification of Milton line and the remaining section of the Kitchener line goes ahead, GO RER will cost even more. It will be hard for the province to find money for the DRL until GO RER is complete.

There is plenty of money being spent on transit in the GTA but it is not nearly enough. The Eglinton LRT is a distant second to GO RER in cost of transit projects in the GTA.

Metrolinx has a lot more power than a few years ago, when transit planning power was given to the Miller administration, Rob Ford and city council, all of whom managed to make a big mess. The province just decided to build GO RER about a year ago and there was minimal political interference in that decision. There was the complication of "SmartTrack" which was quickly rejected as infeasible, and there was the UP Express fiasco, but otherwise municipal politicians have had almost no influence over GO RER.

 

[jcam]

Ok keep deluding yourself. Toronto has no money to pay for these projects. When the comes for these projects to be actually built and not studied which is all Toronto knows how to do we will see who will be running things.

Metrolinx will only get involved if its run as a full blown P3....and that won't happen for a DRL. Maybe it would be a Design-Build-Maintain at most, but the ops and rolling stock will always match the subway system. When you need interlining for yards, etc., it probably makes the most sense for it to be run by the TTC (or at least the same entity as the TTC subway network).

The city also is in the midst of reviewing revenue tools, so it'll be up to the politicians to finally (hopefully) try to put some in place so they're not always relying on other levels of government.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Metrolinx will only get involved if its run as a full blown P3....and that won't happen for a DRL. Maybe it would be a Design-Build-Maintain at most, but the ops and rolling stock will always match the subway system.

Ontario has the Alternative Financing and Procurement process. Basically, it is the DBM that you described from what I understand, but the key is that the contractor is responsible for any cost or schedule overruns, not the taxpayer. It is being used for the Crosstown now, was successfully used for the UP Express (operational pricing fiasco is aside and unrelated), and has been successfully used in other projects like hospitals. You're right in that Metrolinx would get involved if the Relief Line uses (and should use) the AFP, with support from Infrastructure Ontario.

In fact, it was the province that blasted the city for not using a similar process for the TYSSE, back when the overruns were first concretely tallied and calls for help went out.

 

[rbt]

And plus, Mlinx doesn't hold the purse strings, and has very little involvement with TO planning. Nor does their lack of transparency, closed-door attitude, flip-flopping while at Wynne's beck and call, etc automatically make them supreme leaders of transit planning. But the kicker is that without the City's DRL, y'all can kiss bye-bye to extending Yonge north of Steeles (which quelle surprise is also not a Metrolinx project).

I often think Yonge north of Steeles is more likely than Yonge south of Steeles.

Politically, if the province tendered Yonge from Steeles to Highway 7, then told the city money is available for Finch to Steeles anytime they want, the Toronto electorate would throw council out really fast if they tried to block construction of that chunk.