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Westin Harbour Castle (?, ?, ?)

Automation Gallery said:
Everyone here is saying.....knock it down, build a park, expropriate it, etc.
but at the end of the day no one is saying, exchange some of that waterfront land to the city, for no height limits on the adjacent convention centre lot?
When someone pays 400 million, that's what it may take, ...haha you cant have your cake and eat it too
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Again with this insanity. What cake? The city doesn't own the property. It's up to the purchaser to figure out if there's value in paying $400 million. You're suggesting letting developers do whatever they want. Development charges aren't free money. They are there to pay for infrastructure/ service upgrades with costs increases exponentially at higher densities. There's also a limit to how high a private developer will build even if the zoning has no height limit. There's only room for one tower on the convention centre site. It's simply not enough.
 
The only leverage the city has is if the developer asks for more density and a complete redevelopment. That said, I'm hopeful that in a few years, we get a better structure at the foot of Bay Street, one that that is far more welcoming at street level, and opens up more to the ferry terminal and the waterfront. If we can get the density transferred to the north side of Queen's Quay for a smaller, more elegant structure or structures on the south, splendid.

I absolutely hate the Westin Harbour Castle, but it, along with Harbour Square (which I also despise), was built when the Harbourfront was still an industrial wasteland. Everyone was expected to drive to the hotel, so the main entrance from street level is up a parking ramp. What annoyed me the most was when I had to go to a conference at the Westin. I took the Harbourfront streetcar, went up the stairs, and tried several doors to get in. I had to enter through the hotel, across the bridge and back into the building I tried to enter from the street. I'm still bitter about that.
 
I can learn to love the Harbour Square (except for the QQ facade) - the towers have a certain simplicity to it, and the podium facing the water is actually interesting in a 60s sci-fi sort of way, though it would be much improved if the promenade can be extended across the property. There is nothing redeemable about the Westin.

AoD
 
I could see the city approving a 300m+ building on the conference centre lot. This is a really good location to do so; with the 300m 1 Yonge likely to be approved just to the east, and the excellent access to TTC bus, streetcar, subway, GO bus and Trains, and a short walk to the financial district, this lot has a lot going for it.
 
We are losing all these massive hotels. Is Toronto's tourism that bad? Chicago and NYC both had hotel booms in recent years.
 
gabe said:
We are losing all these massive hotels. Is Toronto's tourism that bad? Chicago and NYC both had hotel booms in recent years.
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Shangri La
Trump
Four Seasons
Ritz-Carlton
Delta
Hotel X
Bisha


Toronto has built a lot of hotels in the last few years, and continues to do so. I don't see how we are not having a hotel boom.
 
salsa said:
Shangri La
Trump
Four Seasons
Ritz-Carlton
Delta
Hotel X
Bisha


Toronto has built a lot of hotels in the last few years, and continues to do so. I don't see how we are not having a hotel boom.
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Those are high-end hotels. We are losing mid range hotels that cater to families, and travellers on middle class budgets. Although the way the Canadian dollar is going, those five star prices are now three star prices for American visitors lol
 
If the property sold for 400 million, They're going to want to develop something more massive 1-7 Yonge street. Does anyone know the total size of this property compared to 1-7 Yonge street? And what could be developed on it for the money?
 
We are losing the mid range hotels for the same reason they are faltering every where. The reason is Airbnb. I believe Airbnb is the third largest hotelier in the world after Hilton and Marriot.
 
Hotel space is apparently in very short supply currently, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of new stock come online in the next few years. There is a lot coming down the pipeline right now, too.

Mid range hotels are on the way out, but they are a dying breed globally from my understanding, at least in big cities. The problem is that the finances for mid range pricing in the downtown core just doesn't work anymore.. Its too bad we aren't seeing new mid range construction on subway lines that still gives easy access to the core.
 
Dandy Horse said:
quay 27 doesn't allow for any waterfront access, it uses ground level glass walkway walls to keep everyone out.
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That's incorrect. While each pair of towers is closed at ground level, there's an open path between them to the waterfront and the boardwalk along the water is public.
 
MetroMan said:
That's incorrect. While each pair of towers is closed at ground level, there's an open path between them to the waterfront and the boardwalk along the water is public.
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sorry. Where is the open path? I haven't seen it, only those glass walkways that I haven't ever seen a person in (more like walls than walkways). In any respect I wouldn't call that scenario porous, but if there is a walkway then there is.
 
Dandy Horse said:
sorry. Where is the open path? I haven't seen it, only those glass walkways that I haven't ever seen a person in (more like walls than walkways). In any respect I wouldn't call that scenario porous, but if there is a walkway then there is.
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As he said, there is an open path between both buildings.
 
Tuscani01 said:
As he said, there is an open path between both buildings.
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My point is that pier 27 has the same antisocial and sub-urban design that cuts off pedestrian access and alienates people. Asking for it to be more like 27 is just asking for it to be made out of a lesser material for more money without solving the issues that make that area gross.
 
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