Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

True.

I made my previous post because my father had the ideal job opportunity in Guelph recently, and as we found out, there is no easy or practical way to commute there by transit or car in less than 2h.

I dream of the day where the labor market of the GTA, Hamilton, K-W-G and Barrie are all inter-connected. Where it won't be an odd thing for someone from Hamilton or Kitchener to commute for work to Toronto or Markham and vice versa.
The problem appears to be that I do not think there will ever be an easy way to get people to commute far distances unless we make teleporters which is highly unlikely. At a certain point one must realize that the position is simply too far without moving. There are jobs I would like in Calgary but I recognize that it is too far to commute to. Although I do know a person who owns his own plane and lives in Muskoka and commutes to Toronto airport daily. Anyways for us mere mortals who are trying to do this on transit, it is simply impossible. Transit can only do so much. Smart track on Eglinton west is not going to all of a sudden make more jobs significantly easier to get to than a ROW LRT on Eglinton West. The LRT would do the same job for a fraction of the cost and may take a few more minutes. This is the Gardner Expressway debate all over again and I find it unfortunate if Tory loses the ST plan on Eglinton West that there is no guarantee a LRT will be built. That would be like, well we cant afford the hybrid option so screw the boulevard option as well.
 
The problem appears to be that I do not think there will ever be an easy way to get people to commute far distances unless we make teleporters which is highly unlikely. At a certain point one must realize that the position is simply too far without moving. There are jobs I would like in Calgary but I recognize that it is too far to commute to. Although I do know a person who owns his own plane and lives in Muskoka and commutes to Toronto airport daily. Anyways for us mere mortals who are trying to do this on transit, it is simply impossible. Transit can only do so much. Smart track on Eglinton west is not going to all of a sudden make more jobs significantly easier to get to than a ROW LRT on Eglinton West. The LRT would do the same job for a fraction of the cost and may take a few more minutes. This is the Gardner Expressway debate all over again and I find it unfortunate if Tory loses the ST plan on Eglinton West that there is no guarantee a LRT will be built. That would be like, well we cant afford the hybrid option so screw the boulevard option as well.
Your examples are poor straw men. All of the previously mentioned destinations (GTA, Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, Barrie) are ones where we realistically could make commuting a lot easier.

Calgary and Muskoka are probably not those kind of destinations. To bring them up at all is ridiculous.
 
Your examples are poor straw men. All of the previously mentioned destinations (GTA, Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, Barrie) are ones where we realistically could make commuting a lot easier.

Calgary and Muskoka are probably not those kind of destinations. To bring them up at all is ridiculous.
I don't think it is ridiculous at all.. Here is my reason. To get anywhere far by transit within decent time you would basically need to have the transit stop at your doorstop as well as one directly where you want to go and very few stops on the way. Realistically how do we provide that type of service. Even the UPexpress which is fast and has few stops has the challenge that one must get to Union first. As for the guy I know who lived in Muskoka flying only worked because the guy had a plane which took off and landed in the water and was able to land downtown in the water. If he had to travel to a airport on either end of his journey it would not make any sense. So even wealthy people are limited by distance in regards to commuting. We cant even built a Sheppard LRT without adding a bunch of stops because people want stops close to them. And somehow people here think we can build long distance commutes bypassing all the people in between.
 
It is completely ridiculous.

You are comparing commuting to Toronto from Calgary or Muskoka to commuting from nearby GTA locales (ie Mississauga, Halton, Oshawa, Brampton, etc), or Hamilton, or Kitchener, or Barrie.

It is a straw man, plain and simple.
 
It is completely ridiculous.

You are comparing commuting to Toronto from Calgary or Muskoka to commuting from nearby GTA locales (ie Mississauga, Halton, Oshawa, Brampton, etc), or Hamilton, or Kitchener, or Barrie.

It is a straw man, plain and simple.
Sure whatever.... We will be bullet trains everwhere but with only stops at your door and at where ever you want to go. How stupid of me...

How we got from Smart track on Eglinton to people NEEDing to commuting options to places like Guelph, Kitchener, and Hamilton is beyond me. I know people who commute daily to Stratford. Should we build a transit system for these people as well?
 
I don't think it is ridiculous at all.. Here is my reason. To get anywhere far by transit within decent time you would basically need to have the transit stop at your doorstop as well as one directly where you want to go and very few stops on the way. Realistically how do we provide that type of service. Even the UPexpress which is fast and has few stops has the challenge that one must get to Union first. As for the guy I know who lived in Muskoka flying only worked because the guy had a plane which took off and landed in the water and was able to land downtown in the water. If he had to travel to a airport on either end of his journey it would not make any sense. So even wealthy people are limited by distance in regards to commuting. We cant even built a Sheppard LRT without adding a bunch of stops because people want stops close to them. And somehow people here think we can build long distance commutes bypassing all the people in between.

That's why a mix & integration of good local and regional transit is important.

Ex assume GO service to Hamilton increases and the Hamilton LRT is built. If you're commuting Hamilton to Toronto, the LRT (or uber or cars or bikes) could feed people into the GO system, then at Union station they can either walk or take the subway to their destination. It's still a long commute, but improvements at both local & regional level make it better.

And there are already tons of people making this commute or other long ones, like Toronto to Kitchener/Waterloo or the reverse.

You look at the Bay area and tons of people ride hour long private buses from San Francisco to suburban office parks in Silicon Valley. It's clear people seem willing to commute quite a long way to live and work where they want.
 
Sure whatever.... We will be bullet trains everwhere but with only stops at your door and at where ever you want to go. How stupid of me...

How we got from Smart track on Eglinton to people NEEDing to commuting options to places like Guelph, Kitchener, and Hamilton is beyond me. I know people who commute daily to Stratford. Should we build a transit system for these people as well?
When did I ever suggest that we make bullet trains to everywhere? Again, you are making a straw man argument to discredit my position. So stop putting words into my mouth.

I spoke of making it easier for people in our region to commute throughout our region. You are the one who decided to bring Calgary and Muskoka into this as examples of why we can't improve the commutes of other cities in our region, cities such as Mississauga, Brampton, Whitby, Oshawa, Oakville, Burlington, Richmond Hill, Kitchener, and Barrie. All of these destinations that I'm mentioning, and that others mentioned, are ones where we could realistically make a difference. They are all integrated into the GTA and within reasonable distances of most other destinations in the region. There are already plenty of people commuting between them all.

The examples that you are provided are ridiculous and do more to discredit your opinion than to disprove our point.
 
In addition to what ehlow says, in locales like K-W, Guelph and Hamilton, I am certain that over time with access to such reliable and frequent rapid transit service, the attraction of a regional labour market will incite businesses to relocate nearby stations. It just makes logical business sense and will mitigate the 'last mile' ordeal tremendously.

Anyway, nobody says that those kind of commutes would be perfect. I think everyone knows if you live in Hamilton and work in Toronto, things are going to be at the very least, challenging. However, making these kinds of commutes at least viable and maybe even competitive in time with commuting by car (given congestion) is a good and attainable goal for our regional transit network.
 
In addition to what ehlow says, in locales like K-W, Guelph and Hamilton, I am certain that over time with access to such reliable and frequent rapid transit service, the attraction of a regional labour market will incite businesses to relocate nearby stations. It just makes logical business sense and will mitigate the 'last mile' ordeal tremendously.

Anyway, nobody says that those kind of commutes would be perfect. I think everyone knows if you live in Hamilton and work in Toronto, things are going to be at the very least, challenging. However, making these kinds of commutes at least viable and maybe even competitive in time with commuting by car (given congestion) is a good and attainable goal for our regional transit network.

I think its a good goal. Im not saying don't attempt. But I don't know how attainable it is and for the most part I am very optimistic.
 
In addition to what ehlow says, in locales like K-W, Guelph and Hamilton, I am certain that over time with access to such reliable and frequent rapid transit service, the attraction of a regional labour market will incite businesses to relocate nearby stations. It just makes logical business sense and will mitigate the 'last mile' ordeal tremendously.

Anyway, nobody says that those kind of commutes would be perfect. I think everyone knows if you live in Hamilton and work in Toronto, things are going to be at the very least, challenging. However, making these kinds of commutes at least viable and maybe even competitive in time with commuting by car (given congestion) is a good and attainable goal for our regional transit network.

That's already happening in KW! Lots of companies are clustering around the Kitchener GO station (and lobbying for better train service). But even if you're travelling to UW, connecting to the LRT or a good bus grid system helps with the last mile problem.

I'd say it could start happening around the Dundas West-Bloor area as well, a few major offices opening there in the old warehouse buildings.

I agree with everyone that commute is a major factor in what jobs someone would consider, although some people need to take the given job even though the commute is long.

These commutes will take tons of time for sure (at least 2 hours a day round trip), but isn't spending those 2-3 hours each day on a GO train more attractive than being stuck in traffic in your car. At least you can work or read on the train. Congestion is worse and worse, even outside the city along the major highways.

Even a typical commute within Toronto on the subway system can easily be 45 min-1.5 hours each way. Say people going from North York to downtown for example.
 
Back on topic.

@TessKalinowski: SmartTrack and regional express rail are so simiar that future studies of smarttrack aren't expected to change the findings, says Metrolinx.

The idea of SmartTrack as a replacement for the Relief Line is dead.
 
Back on topic.

@TessKalinowski: SmartTrack and regional express rail are so simiar that future studies of smarttrack aren't expected to change the findings, says Metrolinx.

The idea of SmartTrack as a replacement for the Relief Line is dead.

Praise Jesus! Praise Baby Jesus!

JT needs to quit while he's ahead and give up on his "London-style" commuter rail dream.

But back to the DRL: the current dialogue needs to shift from an us (downtown) versus them (suburbs) approach. This is a line, in whatever iteration it takes, that will genuinely be of use for people all over the GTA, especially considering the potential connectivity with GO and impending GO RER service. It is incredibly frustrating to see how divisive an issue this has become because of SmartTrack and its grandiose promises.
 

Back
Top