Scarborough-Malvern LRT

[ShonTron]

The EA process has started for this route. (I had thought that Eglinton-Crosstown, the centrepiece of the plan was to start sooner.)

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proje..._lrt/index.htm

It's a bit of a wonky route, from Kennedy, along Eglinton to Kingston, along Kingston to Morningside. From there, north to Sheppard, and along Sheppard (!) to Neilson and to Malvern Town Centre. And details to be worked out, supposedly to deal with Kennedy Station connection, Eglinton-Kingston alignment, Morningside-Kingston, and the UTSC connection, if it does proceed. The PDF map is here.

It's the strangest route of all of them, with multiple turns and curves and not sure where anything will go, and the hugh question of the UTSC connection. And the idea that these LRT lines won't dump on the subway, is pure bunk - the DRL needs to get going, people!

[scarberiankhatru]

That map is hilarious. I'm surprised the route doesn't terminate with a dotted planning arrow to "the 905." I'm also wondering how badly the RT extension and improved GO service (along with taking care of the high/double fare) would cannibalize this line. The backyards along Sheppard would see double service with this route - expect cafes and art galleries by 2012!

[ShonTron]

Yep, those backyards need that service, don't they? It also makes you wonder why they are bothering with the Morningside-Meadowvale section. My guess is that a route 13 Rouge Hill will likely be restored. Why not send this over to cover that stretch, and at least send it to connect to the RT. But then again, it wouldn't be Transfer City otherwise.

[M II A II R II K]

I had thought that Eglinton-Crosstown, the centrepiece of the plan was to start sooner.)

Maybe because we'll only ever see the crappy lines and any of the good ones would never see the light of day, not that the underground sections would have anyway.

[doady]

They probably should have done these studies before announcing an LRT plan... In Peel for example they are doing studies to determine what to build along Hurontario/Main, before actually deciding what to build...

[ShonTron]

The Hurontario Street study is completely different kettle of fish. There, two municipalities are jointly looking at a single corridor (because the 407/Hydro corridor is pretty well arbitrary, even more so than Steeles), and what the urban and transport vision is. While I can't see anything but Transit City style LRT going in there, at least all the pieces are being studied at once.

With Transit City, they decided a bunch of "transit corridors" and "Avenues" - both solid ideas, then ignored half of what they planned, and decided we need LRT lines to bring streetcars to every councillor's ward.

[Hipster Duck]

The backyards along Sheppard would see double service with this route - expect cafes and art galleries by 2012!

Here's a rendering of how the northeast Scarborough neighbourhood of "Morningside Heights" is expected to look in 4 years:

[CDL.TO]

Here's a rendering of how the northeast Scarborough neighbourhood of "Morningside Heights" is expected to look in 4 years:

Amazing! All hail the mighty power of the streetcar!

[scarberiankhatru]

Morningside Heights will look like that, but Malvern itself, which is getting streetcars and the RT extension, will look like this:

[Rainforest]

Yeah, this is funny ...

Seriously, this route should be reconsidered. Eglinton E and Kingston Rd are sensible candidates for LRT service, but the line does not need to reach Malvern. It could terminate at Morningside Mall (Kingston / Lawrence E), or at UTSC, or turn east along Lawrence and reach Rouge Hill GO.

Malvern Town Centre will be much better off with the line that runs through STC (and this is now being planned anyway). This is a much faster and more direct connection to Kennedy Stn, plus it will provide direct service to STC itself.

[Voltz]

I have seen both areas, and Lawrence to Rouge Hill seems even less suitable for LRT than all the way to Malvern,

Of course, people would not take this line all the way to Kennedy from Malvern. I know that it is a strange concept for some, but people do actually use transit to get to areas other than downtown or the subway.

If this line where to actually get built out to the planned length (and weather or not it should is debatable), then I would see it as more of a local line for those on Morningside and in Malvern, and local and subway access line for those on the southern part of the route.

[scarberiankhatru]

If Lawrence gets a line (and maybe it should, being a busy corridor with plenty of potential whose mixed-traffic buses are highly dysfunctional) it should go all the way over to Don Mills...there's no point only serving a distant low density stretch that's already right next to several GO stations.

The Eglinton line should just be run straight over to Markington..."planning arrow-induced justonemorestopitis to underprivileged Malvern" is the reason the Morningside line exists at all. The Morningside bus is busiest where it is the de facto Eglinton East bus east of Kennedy, not actually on Morningside.

The Morningside stretch of this line will be an obscene waste of money, used by pitifully few riders a day. Even if they did manage to bulldoze all the houses and parks that line Morningside and replace them with ersatz/precast Queen West strips, Morningside will never warrant anything beyond buses. Most suburban transit users are riding downtown or to the subway...this is an undeniable fact and if routes do not cater to these people, they are failures.

Transit plans for Scarborough that don't include a Danforth extension to STC aren't worth the paper they're printed on or the electricity needed to display them on a monitor.

[Coruscanti Cognoscente]

Yep, those backyards need that service, don't they? It also makes you wonder why they are bothering with the Morningside-Meadowvale section. My guess is that a route 13 Rouge Hill will likely be restored. Why not send this over to cover that stretch, and at least send it to connect to the RT. But then again, it wouldn't be Transfer City otherwise.

Ha! Now you're calling it Transfer City too! And I thought I was the only one who had picked it up from Scarberian.

[ShonTron]

I only call the North York-Scarborough component of Transit City "Transfer City" (basically Sheppard Avenue and lack of a northern cross-town corridor and the Malvern section of the Scarborough-Malvern line). Otherwise, I'm generally supportive of the concept, but not its execution. I've used that line before, it's great!

As far as my support/criticism of Transit City, if Steve Munro was a 10, and Scarberian a 3 (because even he has been less critical of certain parts), I'd be a 5. I like how Eglinton will be served, with a large underground service that will be considerably superior to bus service, at least between Keele and Don Mills, and Jane won't do bad, even Don Mills (as long as a DRL subway hooks up and is able to eventually supersede part of that line) and Finch West (even with the hydro corridor ignored) will do well.

[wyliepoon]

What I think Morningside Heights will look like...