Landlord/Tenant question...

[wonderboy416]

As some of you know I recently returned to Toronto from Korea at the beginning of the month. My 2 best friends are renting the top unit in a house on Davenport and agreed to let me stay free of charge upon my return until I figured out what's next (realistically 2-3 months at most). The landlord lives on the first floor of the unit. He saw me leaving today and approached me asking who I was and on what grounds I was staying in the house, he seemed quite upset and demanded I have one of the 2 guys on the lease agreement give him a call. I simply said I was a house guest and I would have them contact him.

To my knowledge they only have to notify him of my stay if I was a sub-letting part of the unit (to which he can refuse which would then give the tenants 30 days to get off their lease). I'm not paying them anything and I certainly haven't provided this as my address to anyone. All utilities are paid by the tenants so I can't see how he is in any way affected by my stay.

Can we safely tell him to f* off when he raises the issue?
They were already upset that my friend put a trailer in the garage claiming it was taking up too much space (even though it only occupied my friend's half of the garage) so that argument went nowhere and was also upset that they brought a cat into the house (despite the rental agreement stating no pets) - unless the law has changed I understand a tenant has the right to keep pets in their rented property regardless so that's probably why that was never followed.

Any input on how we should handle this would be appreciated.

[LordWanker]

Handle it like civil adults but it sounds like the trust between your friends and the landlord is tenuous at best.

Think about it:
1) Your friends brought a cat into the property even though it was stated and agreed in writing on the lease that it was not permitted. One broken promise. ( BTW cat urine smell&stain is a bitch to remove; Perhaps the landlord or someone in his family is allergic to cats?)
2) Was there anything in writing regarding the storage of the trailer in the garage, conditions and duration? Is the trailer, even though occupying your friend's side of the garage, impeding or preventing the landlord from using his side?

[daveto]

Near as I can figure, you are ok as long as there is no moneys exchanged nor formal subletting contract.

http://www.ontariotenants.ca/law/act06.phtml#RTA100

The wording of "unauthorized occupancy" isn't clear to me, as I guess technically your friends have assigned a portion of the tenancy to you. However the reality of the disputes process is that your landlord wouldn't bother.

I don't blame your landlord for being p'od. Really your friends should have told him as a courtesy you'd be there for a while. But ultimately, he chose your friends as tenants and if he has issue with them then he should reassess his own screening/selection process.

Ps. Pets cannot be excluded from freeholds, but they can be from condos depending upon the condo rules.
http://www.ontariotenants.ca/law/act02.phtml#RTA14

[daveto]

LW, wrt to the cat clause, a contract does not override one's statuatory rights. The landlord can put whatever clauses he likes into a tenancy agreement, but if they violate the RTA then the RTA takes precedence.

[LordWanker]

Well from http://www.ontariotenants.ca/law/law.phtml#Q6:

"Q6: The landlord says I must either move out or get rid of my pet; Do I?

A6: Only if the pet is dangerous, causes allergic reactions or causes problems for other tenants or the landlord, must you get rid of your pet or consider moving elsewhere as per Landlord application to terminate tenancy based on animals.

Even if you signed a lease with a "no pets" clause, if the pet is not a problem for anybody they can not enforce it; such no pets clauses are invalid under the law.

You do not have to move or get rid of the pet unless the Board issues a written order to do so."

I certainly hope the landlord is not allergic to the cat.

[wonderboy416]

Thanks for the responses.

LordWanker - the trailer does not cross over into the landlord's half of the garage and the lease does state he's entitled to 50% of the garage, so the landlord was a total dick IMO to complain about it. The other tenant is the guy who owns the cat, he's actually a police officer. His logic is that if a landlord cannot deny you tenancy for it, why mention it when you're applying? Otherwise another tenant may be unfairly selected over you. There are no allergy concerns here.

I was reading a bit, I'm not quite sure what an unauthorized occupant is either, but even if I fall under that (which I highly doubt) it seems as if he has a very long process ahead in order to evict me (and not the other 2 tenants), we're looking at 60+ days and I'm going to be gone by then anyway. However since I'm not paying any rents and all utitlies are covered by the tenant I can't see how I fit this description. I also found wording that states that a tenant may evict for too many occupants in a unit (defined as a health hazard or fire safety issue) - which to me reads that a tenant may legally have as many people living with him as allowed under current by-laws regardless as to what the landlord wishes.

The only catch is that the lease agreement (which I just read) states that there will be 2 persons occupying the unit on a full-time basis and names them - but as pointed out, anything in a lease that's contrary to the laws cannot be enforced. It also doesn't say what the landlords actions are to be if a third occupant enters, thus rendering that section of the contract pointless IMO.

[urbandreamer]

The closer I am to a landlord, the further away I want to be. Which is why I prefer multi-unit highrises.

Wonderboy, as a future landlord myself, I'd probably be upset if you stayed longer than a few weeks to a month. Think about it: would you be annoyed if someone "borrowed" your car for a month without paying for it?

[wonderboy416]

Wonderboy, as a future landlord myself, I'd probably be upset if you stayed longer than a few weeks to a month. Think about it: would you be annoyed if someone "borrowed" your car for a month without paying for it?

I agree, however the landlord has already given them a hard time over something he has no control over in the past (when they were fully within their rights) and he seems to be trying to do the same again. I just spoke to my other roommate (the cop) who just said the police would refuse to even speak to the landlord in this case unless he had a court order in his hand, which he won't be able to get as we're within our rights as tenants here.

It's not my intention to stay here forever but I do intend to stay into January, after talking to this guy I'll be more than happy to be the source of his malcontented ways.

[LordWanker]

It's not my intention to stay here forever but I do intend to stay into January, after talking to this guy I'll be more than happy to be the source of his malcontented ways.

And one wonders why rental units are so hard to find these days. Whatever.....

[wonderboy416]

And one wonders why rental units are so hard to find these days. Whatever.....

I'm quiet, I'm rarely here and I'm within our rights to be here. Who the *bleep* is he to have an issue with it? Landlord or not. He's not being fair (or very nice) so why should I try to find new arrangements to please his sorry ass?
After previous experience with landlords (like being asked to leave 1 week into my occupancy for emergency repairs, I was out 2 weeks and had to fight for compensation) and having landlords refuse to immediately address problems (ie. a broken shower) I have little to no sympathy for someone such as this guy. When it comes down to it, the laws protect so let him do his worst, he'll probably just end up in the back of a cruiser explaining why he trespassed onto his own property or threw a punch or something because he failed to understand the laws when he decided to become a landlord, so good for him.

[AGTO]

Who the *bleep* is he to have an issue with it?

It's his home, he rented it to two people, not three.

When it comes down to it, the laws protect so let him do his worst, he'll probably just end up in the back of a cruiser explaining why he trespassed onto his own property or threw a punch or something because he failed to understand the laws when he decided to become a landlord, so good for him.

Actually the law is on the tenants side. I hope to never get a renter like you.

[LordWanker]

I'm quiet, I'm rarely here and I'm within our rights to be here. Who the *bleep* is he to have an issue with it? Landlord or not. He's not being fair (or very nice) so why should I try to find new arrangements to please his sorry ass?
After previous experience with landlords (like being asked to leave 1 week into my occupancy for emergency repairs, I was out 2 weeks and had to fight for compensation) and having landlords refuse to immediately address problems (ie. a broken shower) I have little to no sympathy for someone such as this guy. When it comes down to it, the laws protect so let him do his worst, he'll probably just end up in the back of a cruiser explaining why he trespassed onto his own property or threw a punch or something because he failed to understand the laws when he decided to become a landlord, so good for him.

Feeling better now after the venting?
As this is an anonymous board on the internet, anything here is taken with a grain of salt and I'll leave it at that.
I stand corrected on the pets portion as this amendment was made after 2006, after I stopped being a landlord.

[wonderboy416]

It's his home, he rented it to two people, not three.

And those are the two persons responsible for paying the rent and to be held liable if there's any damage. What's your point?

Actually the law is on the tenants side. I hope to never get a renter like you.

I've only complained when it was absolutely necessary (ie. my rights being violated). I'd never, ever complain otherwise and I've always allowed my landlord's immediate entrance when requested and supplied a full years worth of cheques upon signing the rental agreement. I've also never violated a single term or condition of a rental agreement that I signed (even if I could rightfully do so) so I guess I'm a terrible tenant though because I don't appreciate being harassed by an asshole of a landlord who I don't even have to answer to by law. L.O.L.!!!

Feeling better now after the venting?
As this is an anonymous board on the internet, anything here is taken with a grain of salt and I'll leave it at that.

Well I know personally about 9-10 people on here (as in met more than once) so it's not as anonymous as you might think. I've got nothing to hide, I simply wanted some advice and to see what other opinions were. I should have assumed that there'd be some people on here with a landlord's mentality - that's understandable. Renting a house is a business and requires sensitivity to the laws as human rights issues are often at play (which is why the police refuse to partake in such arguents and ask the landlord to leave the premises without a written court order). It's quite stupid to run a business without knowing everything you should about the laws pertaining to those operations. Which is why I feel no sympathy for stupid landlords. A smart landlord would try to discuss things in a friendly and polite way (instead of interrogating) and if there's no resolve immediately take their case to the housing tribunal for review... otherwise they may get stuck with a deadbeat tenant - which they in part deserve for not having the common sense to follow the procedures they should have known about in the first place.

Of course that has little to do with my initial post, just a bit disgusted by some people actually taking sides with this jerk.

[LordWanker]

LordWanker - the trailer does not cross over into the landlord's half of the garage and the lease does state he's entitled to 50% of the garage, so the landlord was a total dick IMO to complain about it. The other tenant is the guy who owns the cat, he's actually a police officer. His logic is that if a landlord cannot deny you tenancy for it, why mention it when you're applying? Otherwise another tenant may be unfairly selected over you. There are no allergy concerns here.

So you are saying your cop friend had ownership of the cat prior to moving in?

[wonderboy416]

So you are saying your cop friend had ownership of the cat prior to moving in?

Indeed. Not sure what difference that makes. He knew as well as anyone that the landlord has zero right to request no pets unless there is one of the issues mentioned earlier in this post at the residence, so why put yourself at a disadvantage by mentioning it?