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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

My one big complaint with YRT is how the regular, non Viva routes can really stink for service levels. Woodbridge has service levels that would rival the worst that DRT can offer, but that's also Woodbridge. Even the 102 Markham Road, which should be a core route, is every 60 minutes much of the time, though the TTC operates good frequencies south of Steeles. York Region is really a mixed bag. If you live near Yonge or one of those routes with usable transit (pretty much confined to Thornhill and southern Richmond Hill, parts of Rutherford/16th, Highway 7 and Davis Drive in Newmarket), it's not bad.
 
YRT service overall would have been beefed up years ago if the TTC wasn't within such easy reach for so many York Regionites. YRT loses at least 5 million rides a year just to Steeles buses, and many, if not millions, more rides to other TTC routes, park'n'ride and kiss'n'ride passengers at subway stations, etc.
 
My one big complaint with YRT is how the regular, non Viva routes can really stink for service levels. Woodbridge has service levels that would rival the worst that DRT can offer, but that's also Woodbridge. Even the 102 Markham Road, which should be a core route, is every 60 minutes much of the time, though the TTC operates good frequencies south of Steeles. York Region is really a mixed bag. If you live near Yonge or one of those routes with usable transit (pretty much confined to Thornhill and southern Richmond Hill, parts of Rutherford/16th, Highway 7 and Davis Drive in Newmarket), it's not bad.

i'll definitely agree with you on that part. pretty much anything south of and including hwy7 is pretty good in terms of morning rush, daytime, and evening rush. however, most routes are horrible for getting around in the evening. living on yonge has saved me from taking a cab many many times since the last bus leaves just after the last subway arrives at finch.

however, i've always wanted to know if it would be worthwhile, in terms of cost and ridership, to run a bus all night, even if it was just one up to something like major mac and yonge.
 
Agreed with the general consensus here, although I think that YRT is doing a pretty good job of moving forward with increasing service frequency and improving route structures for more efficiency.

Every few months (at the start of each season?) they announce a huge list of route changes, and most of them are improvements. I think it won't be very long until YRT starts rivaling the TTC on some major (but not Viva) lines, especially as more and more 905ers are opting for transit due to high gas costs.

I just wish for one thing: Improve the connections/transfer points at major intersections. I'm tired of arriving on a Viva bus at 16th Ave, only to see that the bus is coming to the stop. At that point, I still have to cross two sides of the massive intersection, which of course means I missed the only non-Beaver Creek bus for the next 20-30 minutes.

When the Viva stops on the south side of a street with a north end stop, they should allow passengers to exit. Standing in the bus at the door, witnessing my bus show up and leave is just devestating.
 
I just wish for one thing: Improve the connections/transfer points at major intersections.
(...)
When the Viva stops on the south side of a street with a north end stop, they should allow passengers to exit. Standing in the bus at the door, witnessing my bus show up and leave is just devestating.

Very much agree. In a lot of ways this has to do with YRT (including VIVA's) orientation as a commuter transit system which, I think, is gradually changing to accommodate more in-region trips. A lot of the routes are still bounded by the old municipalities. By making transfers more efficient, YRT could allow routes to cross from one York Region municipality into the next rather than sending so many buses down a municipal boundary to a subway station.

The Markham/Vaughan routes, few (none?) of which cross Yonge Street and most of which go to Finch subway via Yonge, are a good example. With the very frequent VIVA service on Yonge Street, why not design some routes to go east-west with a transfer at Yonge? It would certainly relieve the Yonge Street bus flotilla ... and, though I agree that transfers are a pain, improved transfers combined with more frequent service on the routes taken off Yonge Street in favour of those transfers, would certainly be a trade-off worth considering.
 
From Spadina extension EA:
"Completing the calculations using these assumptions results in approximately 5,500 AM peak period transit trips travelling northbound on the Spadina subway extension and alighting at York University station." Not clear if that's opening day or a future year.

Using the TTC's "ALTERNATIVE TRANSIT OPTIONS TRANSIT TECHNOLOGIES" graph, 5,500 trips puts you at the extreme top end of bus/BRT territory, the lower end of streetcar/LRT, and well below the bottom threshold of subway which is 10,000 to 30,000. Aw, it's almost halfway there you might say, but the graph makes one wonder what the hell the actual Spadina ridership is going to be, and how subway can be justified.

The TTC's 2001 RTES study appears to show a Spadina extension coming in at 3,800-4,400 peak point volume by 2021, and Yonge north just above 10,000. And yet Spadina got the head start...

So the Spadina extension is going to have 5,500 people an hour in the off-peak direction getting off at just one station? That sounds like a massive success to me.
 
Very much agree. In a lot of ways this has to do with YRT (including VIVA's) orientation as a commuter transit system which, I think, is gradually changing to accommodate more in-region trips. A lot of the routes are still bounded by the old municipalities. By making transfers more efficient, YRT could allow routes to cross from one York Region municipality into the next rather than sending so many buses down a municipal boundary to a subway station.

The Markham/Vaughan routes, few (none?) of which cross Yonge Street and most of which go to Finch subway via Yonge, are a good example. With the very frequent VIVA service on Yonge Street, why not design some routes to go east-west with a transfer at Yonge? It would certainly relieve the Yonge Street bus flotilla ... and, though I agree that transfers are a pain, improved transfers combined with more frequent service on the routes taken off Yonge Street in favour of those transfers, would certainly be a trade-off worth considering.

Well Markham/Vaughan have a few routes that cross Yonge. Most notably are the routes for the major east/west roads such as Major Mac and 16th Ave. Both of those roads have a bus service extending from the far reaches of Vaughan to the far reaches of Markham. (Okay so maybe the Major Mac one is cut a little short, but I can sense that will change in a year or two as the rest of Major Mac gets a massive restructuring).

It was only recently that YRT increased frequency for the Markham portion of the route 85 16th Ave bus. Until now it was 30 minutes even during peak, but now it's 20 minutes during most hours of the day. All the other buses turn into East Beaver Creek, which is pointless for most of the day.

What I need from YRT is better north/south routes to accompany the east/west routes. I'm tired of the extremely low frequency TTC routes that come up to York Region. I live on the north end of 16th Ave, and if I want to get to Highway 7 to get on a Viva, my only reasonable option (without risking being extremely late) is to take the bus to Yonge, transfer to Blue, and then transfer to Purple.
 
Great to see YRT/VIVA is recognizing that people are traveling at all hours of the night and there is a demand for services along major arteries long after the buses currently stop running. This system is definitely one of the more progressive 905 systems.

I am not sure what is so "progressive" about improving service to the same level that MT and BT already provide.
 
I am not sure what is so "progressive" about improving service to the same level that MT and BT already provide.

I don't think it's completely fair to compare York Region transit to Peel region's options. Especially given the fact that York's services merged into one not all that long ago, while Peel's still run independently of each other.

For the resources that they have, and the available ridership, I think YRT is doing a pretty good job of easing the car obsessed region into accepting transit as a feasible option for travel.
 
I don't think it's completely fair to compare York Region transit to Peel region's options. Especially given the fact that York's services merged into one not all that long ago, while Peel's still run independently of each other.

For the resources that they have, and the available ridership, I think YRT is doing a pretty good job of easing the car obsessed region into accepting transit as a feasible option for travel.

How is it not a fair comparison? York Region is no Durham. Brampton has a similar ridership, and York Region is getting two subways, not Mississauga . In recent years and into the future, York Region has gotten and will continue to get far more funding from the higher levels of government than both Mississauga and Brampton combined.

But okay, lets not compare York Region to Mississauga and Brampton, lets compare it to Oakville instead. The final Oakville Transit buses depart from Oakville GO Station at 1:25am. So yes, even Oakville Transit provides later evening service than YRT. Enough said.
 
How is it not a fair comparison? York Region is no Durham. Brampton has a similar ridership, and York Region is getting two subways, not Mississauga . In recent years and into the future, York Region has gotten and will continue to get far more funding from the higher levels of government than both Mississauga and Brampton combined.

But okay, lets not compare York Region to Mississauga and Brampton, lets compare it to Oakville instead. The final Oakville Transit buses depart from Oakville GO Station at 1:25am. So yes, even Oakville Transit provides later evening service than YRT. Enough said.

Alright, so then how are their frequency times?
 
The final Oakville Transit buses depart from Oakville GO Station at 1:25am. So yes, even Oakville Transit provides later evening service than YRT. Enough said.



ok i raise you a yrt bus that leaves finch station at 2:15am.
 
ok i raise you a yrt bus that leaves finch station at 2:15am.

As much as I would like to defend the YRT, the bus leaving 2:15am from Finch does nothing for the majority of York Region. Sure, it will get me closer to home. That's awesome, but I can't complete my trip home because the second bus that I would need to take (on a major road, as well) makes its last departure at 11:30pm. Way too early.
 
As much as I would like to defend the YRT, the bus leaving 2:15am from Finch does nothing for the majority of York Region. Sure, it will get me closer to home. That's awesome, but I can't complete my trip home because the second bus that I would need to take (on a major road, as well) makes its last departure at 11:30pm. Way too early.
that's exactly my point. saying when the last bus leaves a certain point is useless. so quoting the last bus leaving the oakville GO station is just as pointless as the when the last bus leaves finch.

it doesn't prove anything.
 
Alright, so then how are their frequency times?

Does it matter? No matter what they they will always be higher than YRT's frequencies after 12am. Low frequency is always better than no frequency.

that's exactly my point. saying when the last bus leaves a certain point is useless. so quoting the last bus leaving the oakville GO station is just as pointless as the when the last bus leaves finch.

it doesn't prove anything.

Oakville's system is inferior to YRT, so don't you think it strange that it has more late night service than YRT, especially considering its lack of any subway connections? Or is it wrong of me to expect routes that serve the subway to have later night service?

I just think YRT service ends way too early that's all, especially compared to Mississauga and Brampton, which have inadequate night service already.
 

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