What's with all the anxiety in today's youth?

[wild goose chase]

Yes, while there is some correlation with ethnicity/culture/nationality, I'm not sure that such a factor has influence alone in and of itself as to when kids leave the nest as opposed to economics, opportunities, and the way society is set up for them in terms of having an easy go at it.

I once knew an Indian person (actually from India, who I met while in the US) who told me he left home in his mid teens in India, whereas most Canadians (of any ethnicity) could hardly do that based on economic and practical reasons, even if the legal age of majority allowed it. Yet, people brought up in Indian culture are thought of as belonging to a culture where people stay with their family a long time into adulthood, as opposed to Westerners.

 

[wild goose chase]

Agreed - because the tough love approach worked 40 years ago when jobs were a dime a dozen and you could buy a house for under your first year's salary.

Today's realities aren't conducive to this approach - and probably why many folks in my generation struggle to get their lives together.

I've heard people talk about this, and also somewhat felt that the cultural gap between generations within the "same culture" can be as big or even more than those between people perceived as being of different "culture" or ethnicity but of the same generation or cohort in Canada, and this would apply for things like age when one first moves out, marries, has kids if one chose to do so etc.

For example, a Scottish-Canadian millennial in Toronto probably has more in common with a Somali-Canadian or Korean-Canadian millennial born and raised in the same time and place than a Scottish-Canadian born in the 1930s in this regard. All Canadians of one generation or cohort (such as the Baby Boomers, Gen X, millennials etc.) probably experience things that are different with society, culture, technology, social norms, economics that the past generation might not have.

 

[King of Kensington]

There's also a lot fewer people who are only of British, Irish or generic "Canadian" ancestry among the younger generation.

 

[wild goose chase]

But overall would you say that the higher percentage of Canadians, or Torontonians, to be specific, living at home longer is more to do with changing economics (difficulty of moving out on one's one due to cost of education, housing, later age at first job etc.), or changing culture (a higher percentage of newer Canadians belonging to cultures where it's acceptable to live with family members later)?

 

[King of Kensington]

Economics primarily, but there's a cultural dimension too.

 

[prosperegal]

Yes, while there is some correlation with ethnicity/culture/nationality, I'm not sure that such a factor has influence alone in and of itself as to when kids leave the nest as opposed to economics, opportunities, and the way society is set up for them in terms of having an easy go at it.

I once knew an Indian person (actually from India, who I met while in the US) who told me he left home in his mid teens in India, whereas most Canadians (of any ethnicity) could hardly do that based on economic and practical reasons, even if the legal age of majority allowed it. Yet, people brought up in Indian culture are thought of as belonging to a culture where people stay with their family a long time into adulthood, as opposed to Westerners.

Did he leave home-leave home? Or did his parents send him off to boarding school? Not the same thing.

As for having things in common with other cultures of the same generation (e.g. Korean Canadians and Irish Canadians who were raised in the same neighbourhood, attended the same schools, etc...), there are STILL elements of difference AT HOME. Sure, I trick-or-treated, played Barbies (okay, Cabbage Patch Dolls - I wasn't much of a Barbie kind of girl), went to Brownies/Guides, etc... with non-Chinese kids in my area, but my parents, who are IMMIGRANTS, still raised me with elements of the old culture. Culturally, I probably have more in common with the Jewish or Italian kid I knew.

 

[wild goose chase]

Did he leave home-leave home? Or did his parents send him off to boarding school? Not the same thing.

Not sure since this was a few years back now and no longer live in the same area as him -- I don't recall him talking specifically about school.

I would imagine that in some countries it is more possible to leave home early though (in Canada and the US depending on law, you aren't really legally allowed to leave earlier than late teens -- around 16-18 I think?). Being in school to begin with means that you can't support yourself full time anyways, as opposed to just after-school, or summer jobs, parents providing support etc. Plus, I'm pretty sure in most Western countries we have child labour laws that basically limit how young in age a teenager could work anyways so it's pretty much a given that parental dependence at least is necessary for teens up to a certain age.

 

[Tewder]

Agreed - because the tough love approach worked 40 years ago when jobs were a dime a dozen and you could buy a house for under your first year's salary.

Today's realities aren't conducive to this approach - and probably why many folks in my generation struggle to get their lives together.

Not really. If anything we should probably go back a bit more to this approach. Every generation has challenges. The past wasn't some ideal golden age, it was far rampant with discrimination, misogyny, ageism, racism, homophobia, classism and all kinds of other inequities.

Today's generation has its challenges, no question, but it is a far more indulged generation compared to earlier ones. Parents in the past weren't ashamed to have a life independent of their children and let their children have theirs... unsupervised. Children didn't have rights and their opinion just didn't matter until they had left home, paying their own rent/mortgage and cleaning their own toilet. Then you started to earn a say in society.

There really isn't that much more of a struggle today for anybody who is truly motivated... it's just that motivation used to be more of a necessity not an option.

 

[King of Kensington]

Today's generation has its challenges, no question, but it is a far more indulged generation compared to earlier ones. Parents in the past weren't ashamed to have a life independent of their children and let their children have theirs... unsupervised. Children didn't have rights and their opinion just didn't matter until they had left home, paying their own rent/mortgage and cleaning their own toilet. Then you started to earn a say in society.

You sound like you're 70.

 

[King of Kensington]

Jewish, Italian and Chinese Canadians are better off socioeconomically than your generic anglo Canadian types. If this "tough love" approach was so beneficial in the long run, why have they lost ground compared to cultural groups that supposedly "coddle" their offspring for too long?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Jewish, Italian and Chinese Canadians are better off socioeconomically than your generic anglo Canadian types. If this "tough love" approach was so beneficial in the long run, why have they lost ground compared to cultural groups that supposedly "coddle" their offspring for too long?

My close Chinese and Italian friends all left home asap (mind you, all males), and reminded their own parents that they themselves left home and family when they emigrated. I'm your typical POWP, and I'd say I'm on par with my friends who stayed home.

Speaking for myself, and there are a lot of stereotypes being thrown about here, I can't see how staying home longer would have helped me socioeconomically. I immigrated to Canada with family in the 1970s, went away for university 1991-1995 starting age 19 (was a slow start, had to work), coming home for summers to work. Left home when got first job at 25 years old, got basement apartment, married and bought rough downtown east house at 28, had first kid at 32. At what point should I have stayed home? Until I got married or had my own kid? I can't imagine being able bodied with a full time career-path job at 28 and still living in my childhood bunk.

 

[prosperegal]

My close Chinese and Italian friends all left home asap (mind you, all males), and reminded their own parents that they themselves left home and family when they emigrated. I'm your typical POWP, and I'd say I'm on par with my friends who stayed home.

Speaking for myself, and there are a lot of stereotypes being thrown about here, I can't see how staying home longer would have helped me socioeconomically. I immigrated to Canada with family in the 1970s, went away for university 1991-1995 starting age 19 (was a slow start, had to work), coming home for summers to work. Left home when got first job at 25 years old, got basement apartment, married and bought rough downtown east house at 28, had first kid at 32. At what point should I have stayed home? Until I got married or had my own kid? I can't imagine being able bodied with a full time career-path job at 28 and still living in my childhood bunk.

Twenty-five is a good age to leave, guy or girl. I think kicking a child out at 18, however, is "uncaring." However, for many millennials, even those who leave at 25-28 have some sort of help. I hover between X and Millennial and at least half of the people I know had some assistance with their first downpayment. And most who "live" at home with their parents are paying rent anyway - often at a discounted price, but still paying and helping with the groceries.

 

[King of Kensington]

There is of course a middle ground between "you're 18, you're on your own" and living with your parents until you're 40.

 

[wild goose chase]

I would say leaving at 18 is rare (in the sense of leaving and doing so while fully earning one's upkeep, not living elsewhere such as a boarding school or university dorm fully supported by parents) currently.

I would say the mid 20s now would be a pretty common age to do it. I left home at 23 myself (though to a place that was cheaper than Toronto for housing). Leaving in one's 30s are less common, but I get the impression of it being more common than leaving in the late teens now probably since teens can rarely be fully self-supporting. I don't know anyone who lived with parents until age 40 (if they are living with parents, that's probably because their ageing parents might need their care more than the other way around).

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think we call all agree, regardless of our cultural baggage, that the best thing parents can do to today is to raise their young to an early adulthood to a point where they WOULD be self sufficient if need be. So, welcome your sons and daughters at home well into their 30s if you wish, but make sure that they could be independent in their early 20s. And I don't mean financially, but with regards to maturity and worldliness. There's something amazing when your chicks learn to fly on their own.