University Avenue - Toronto's Grand Avenue?

[AlvinofDiaspar]

"Leading architects want to open our eyes to why the city is a world leader in designing and shaping urban outdoor spaces.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...dscape-architecture-movement/article24228077/

Are these guys delusional?

Not the slightest bit - the recent crop of projects (Corktown Commons, Sugar Beach, Sherbourne Park, Underpass Park, Queen Quay Revitalization, Ontario and Canada Square, Evergreen Brickworks, the upcoming Berczy Park and Grange Park revitalization) does put the city on the international map. That's not to mention the proposed Lower Don Lands project as well.

Speaking of public space - there is a new report by Park People that might be of interest as well: http://parkpeople.ca/makingconnections

AoD

 

[ksun]

Not the slightest bit - the recent crop of projects (Corktown Commons, Sugar Beach, Sherbourne Park, Underpass Park, Queen Quay Revitalization, Ontario and Canada Square, Evergreen Brickworks, the upcoming Berczy Park and Grange Park revitalization) does put the city on the international map. That's not to mention the proposed Lower Don Lands project as well.

Speaking of public space - there is a new report by Park People that might be of interest as well: http://parkpeople.ca/makingconnections

AoD

You really think projects the scale of Sugar beach, Sherbourne Commons and Berczy Park will help to put Toronto on the international map? That's rather optimistic.

Speaking of University Ave, I dream on day before I die, it may function like this instead of serving as a highway

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You really think projects the scale of Sugar beach, Sherbourne Commons and Berczy Park will help to put Toronto on the international map? That's rather optimistic.

We've been through this argument before, if you don't recall. These are exercises that have already been, and will be covered in international literature - and exposure of this kind helps to put Toronto on the international map.

And yes, the example you've just posted from La Rambla is comparable in scale to QQE, not University Ave. (even though QQE would still be far less intimate giving the existing built form) - different uses, different scales, different roles. You'd have to pull out some images of Avinguda Diagonal - try this instead:

https://goo.gl/maps/dnNlj

Or if I am feeling even less generous, try Gran Via de les Corts Catalanes at the less hospitable stretches:

https://goo.gl/maps/ZT9Gk

AoD

 

[Adjei]

Not the slightest bit - the recent crop of projects (Corktown Commons, Sugar Beach, Sherbourne Park, Underpass Park, Queen Quay Revitalization, Ontario and Canada Square, Evergreen Brickworks, the upcoming Berczy Park and Grange Park revitalization) does put the city on the international map. That's not to mention the proposed Lower Don Lands project as well.

Speaking of public space - there is a new report by Park People that might be of interest as well: http://parkpeople.ca/makingconnections

AoD

Sure we are showing some improvement which is good but saying these projects elevate us to be a world leader is urban space design is at best laughable.

Talk for example Ontario and Canada Square. You would think with such names we would get something more prominent and better than what was built.

I was just in Amsterdamn and even this square outside one their train stations is better than Ontario and Canada Square:

 

[Tewder]

I too find the claims to be a little overwrought. What is interesting though, and what may be generating the attention internationally, is that the improvements and changes are happening at all. Beautiful European cities will always be beautiful european cities but Toronto is transforming itself from a relatively ugly, utilitarian and post-industrial wasteland (in some areas at least) - Hogtown - into a vastly improving modern urban city. This is the story, really.

 

[the lemur]

Sure we are showing some improvement which is good but saying these projects elevate us to be a world leader is urban space design is at best laughable.

Talk for example Ontario and Canada Square. You would think with such names we would get something more prominent and better than what was built.

I was just in Amsterdamn and even this square outside one their train stations is better than Ontario and Canada Square:

I suspect this is meant as a bit of a showcase project because aside from the ArenA, the Bijlmer neighbourhood is one of the city's less well-regarded areas, known mostly for its high-rise low-income housing and its prison.

 

[Adjei]

I suspect this is meant as a bit of a showcase project because aside from the ArenA, the Bijlmer neighbourhood is one of the city's less well-regarded areas, known mostly for its high-rise low-income housing and its prison.

I don't see how this a showcase project when it's the norm for Amsterdam and the Netherlands as a whole. You see stuff like this all around. The Biljmer neighbourhood may be less regarded but its designed, integrated, and with amenities in a way which puts low income areas in Toronto like Jane and Finch to shame. You have excellent transportation links from the station where you can catch a train to the airport, amsterdam central, and other parts of the Netherlands. You also have an excellent bus service in the area and bike lanes everywhere. The whole area is undergoing gentrification.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Sure we are showing some improvement which is good but saying these projects elevate us to be a world leader is urban space design is at best laughable.

Talk for example Ontario and Canada Square. You would think with such names we would get something more prominent and better than what was built.

I was just in Amsterdamn and even this square outside one their train stations is better than Ontario and Canada Square:

Is it so much so the quality of the landscaping itself (which is nice, but not particularly innovative)- or the quality of what surrounds it? That's a pretty important distinction.

AoD

 

[junctionist]

I suspect this is meant as a bit of a showcase project because aside from the ArenA, the Bijlmer neighbourhood is one of the city's less well-regarded areas, known mostly for its high-rise low-income housing and its prison.

To build a large and attractive square even in a low-income area is a mark of leadership. Here in Toronto, we've built some fine spaces recently like Sugar Beach and the (ongoing) Queens Quay transformation. But these are relatively small spaces in our most important areas.

We're on the right track, but I'd only say we're gaining ground on the leading European cities. Scarborough's Albert Campbell Square is starting to look tired and in need of revitalization. With landmark architecture and condo retail fronting directly onto the square, it could be something special. What we do with it will reflect where we are in terms of our attitude towards public spaces as a city.

 

[the lemur]

Is it so much so the quality of the landscaping itself (which is nice, but not particularly innovative)- or the quality of what surrounds it? That's a pretty important distinction.

AoD

That's exactly it. It's quality landscaping in itself that's not unusual for the Netherlands or some of Europe but not what we expect here.

 

[Tewder]

There's a different cultural attitude towards design and aesthetics within Europe though, one that has evolved over centuries. It's largely a legacy of monarchy and empire, public spaces and buildings being the ultimate vanity projects if you will.

The story in Toronto now, however, is whether or not we see signs that our attitude is evolving, from one where pragmatics and utilitarianism preside to one where aesthetics, art and beauty - if not necessarily presiding - at least have a valued part to play. The shear number of projects planned would seem to indicate this is so. Hydro poles, pot-marked streets and broken sidewalks persist but hopefully this will change eventually too.

 

[Adjei]

Is it so much so the quality of the landscaping itself (which is nice, but not particularly innovative)- or the quality of what surrounds it? That's a pretty important distinction.

AoD

The point of showing it was to show how even a square in front of a station which is important in Amsterdam is more impressive than what we got. With a name like Canada Square, you would think it would be more grand. Imagine telling someone you're taking them to Canada Square, they would probably be underwhelmed after seeing it. You would expect for a more significant landmark.

Now if you were to say Amsterdam is a world leader in urban space design, I wouldn't argue with that. I mean even their airport has a nice public square in front of it. To imply that you are a world leader means that you are going above what others are doing. I just don't see that here in Toronto. Sure we are improving and getting some recognition, but we just ain't there yet. This is why I found fault with the article. Sometimes we need to humble ourselves and learn from what others are doing in order to improve.

 

[mrgrieves]

The point of showing it was to show how even a square in front of a station which is important in Amsterdam is more impressive than what we got. With a name like Canada Square, you would think it would be more grand. Imagine telling someone you're taking them to Canada Square, they would probably be underwhelmed after seeing it. You would expect for a more significant landmark.

Now if you were to say Amsterdam is a world leader in urban space design, I wouldn't argue with that. I mean even their airport has a nice public square in front of it. To imply that you are a world leader means that you are going above what others are doing. I just don't see that here in Toronto. Sure we are improving and getting some recognition, but we just ain't there yet. This is why I found fault with the article. Sometimes we need to humble ourselves and learn from what others are doing in order to improve.

Agreed that Canada Square is a misleading name. I'm sure that 99% of Torontonians have never been to that place nevermind have ever even heard of it. However it's not a train station. Its a little park hidden away from the rest of the city so its not a good comparison with the main train station of a very old and important European capital city. The entire issue with TO's waterfront in my opinion is that there are large buildings on the south side of Queen's Quay which form a physical barrier between the water and the rest of the city. You could literally be on QQ and Bay or York and you would have NO IDEA there is a lake a few feet away.

But that's not why I posted. Since you were mentioning train stations we should compares apples with apples. I thought it would be fair to bring up Toronto's main train station - Union Station. There is a lot of money being invested inside and outside the station. The covering outside the building was recently taken down - the building is stunning when seen from Front Street. I have read that there are now plans to have some outdoor food stuff in the plaza along Front Street. The subway station is looking really good at platform level - huge improvement from before, although that isn't saying much. And the work on Front Street is looking promising and adds a much more human element to the street.

 

[Adjei]

Agreed that Canada Square is a misleading name. I'm sure that 99% of Torontonians have never been to that place nevermind have ever even heard of it. However it's not a train station. Its a little park hidden away from the rest of the city so its not a good comparison with the main train station of a very old and important European capital city. The entire issue with TO's waterfront in my opinion is that there are large buildings on the south side of Queen's Quay which form a physical barrier between the water and the rest of the city. You could literally be on QQ and Bay or York and you would have NO IDEA there is a lake a few feet away.

But that's not why I posted. Since you were mentioning train stations we should compares apples with apples. I thought it would be fair to bring up Toronto's main train station - Union Station. There is a lot of money being invested inside and outside the station. The covering outside the building was recently taken down - the building is stunning when seen from Front Street. I have read that there are now plans to have some outdoor food stuff in the plaza along Front Street. The subway station is looking really good at platform level - huge improvement from before, although that isn't saying much. And the work on Front Street is looking promising and adds a much more human element to the street.

The station depicted is not the main station in Amsterdam. It's an important station but not the main one and it's even in the suburbs.

 

[Tewder]

The station depicted is not the main station in Amsterdam. It's an important station but not the main one and it's even in the suburbs.

meh, how can it be world class when there are no wooden hydro poles!