U Condos (The Pemberton Group) - Real Estate

I thought the same thing you did years ago that there are limited space downtown, but that's not true after living here. Walking around the area, I see a lot of parking lots that buildings can be built on and a lot of old buildings that could be torn down or relocated. However, there are limited space in the core a long the lake shore since most are already built or being built.
 
urbandreamer said:
The Condo Observer: lol. I can read straight through your bs! Pure advertorial material, ripped straight off your website, imho! Overall, the tone is "buy before land runs out downtown."

There are thousands of building sites downtown!
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LOL! So cynical...Actually you may not believe me, but I am NOT a developer, nor a broker or any such thing...I am, however, an investor. I got interested again in this market about five yrs ago, after a long break. I also have friends and colleagues positioned all over this industry, so get good tidbits. My observation about the land was taken too literally. I think the movement of the market to the lakeshore and North York is more to do with the cost of land, than it physically running out in the core. Also, since the credit crunch getting financing for projects is that more difficult.

I spend a lot of time outside of Toronto on business, and I think it gives me a slightly different perspective compared to the days I lived full time downtown.

Toronto is an amazing, undervalued city. Our core is brimming with potential, and I think that investors who are in for the long haul, not quick flips, will certainly take a second look at U. Remember that just one block north, along charles and St Thomas, condos start at 750K!

Sorry if I came across as some kind of Pemberton groupie!
 
AKS said:
The price in Toronto is starting to climb up. This is an apartment my friend bought in japan. (tokyo)
http://www.b-m-a.jp/roomplan/index.html

Example of one of the cheapest unit in the building.
http://www.b-m-a.jp/roomplan/sw-50i.html
~$389,000 for 579 sq ft 1 bdrm. $672/sq ft.
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Interesting link. Since I don't read Japanese I don't know exact details about any of the variables about this place (interior appearance and amenities, precise location in relation to downtown or public transportation) but, judging by the model room, overall map, panorama and area amenities it looks fine and embarrasses the hell out of this U Condo place. I think I saw something on the site about earthquake proofing as well.

Overall that place seems very reasonable for the price considering the area code.
 
Global Condo Prices

Take a look at this table..
 

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Brian69 said:
Interesting link. Since I don't read Japanese I don't know exact details about any of the variables about this place (interior appearance and amenities, precise location in relation to downtown or public transportation) but, judging by the model room, overall map, panorama and area amenities it looks fine and embarrasses the hell out of this U Condo place. I think I saw something on the site about earthquake proofing as well.

Overall that place seems very reasonable for the price considering the area code.
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It seems to be near Odaiba (where people date). It's not at the heart of downtown (shinjuku, shibuya, ginza) but the starting price is pretty good seems similar to Toronto. I am astounded by their pent house suite :)

I put some translations here for the 1 bdrm
http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=madorisw50ijg1.gif
 
compare Toronto to Chicago - not Alpha Global cities

The Condo Observer said:
Take a look at this table..
Click to expand...


It's amazing how some people always try to compare Toronto to international cities like Paris, London, Tokyo, Moscow, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, New York, Los Angeles, Sydney and Monte Carlo.

To be equivalent, Toronto is more comparable to Chicago (Illinois). Chicago has a population of nearly 3 million people. It is a dominant center of finance, industry and culture in the region. It is also rated an alpha world city by the World Cities Study Group at Loughborough University.[3]

Chicago averages $226 psf. Toronto doesn't sound so cheap now does it.
 
Toronto and Chicago are international cities, which belong on your list as much as Sydney, Singapore, or Monaco. You can't just cite property values to make your point on a matter like that. It's also bizarre that that study you mention when talking about Chicago listed Toronto as a beta city along with Sydney, which supposedly don't compare. Furthermore, I'm highly skeptical that $226 psf gets you prime real estate in Chicago.
 
yea I think Chicago would be listed as an international city. So many planes pass by there daily. But comparing Toronto to those famous international cities like paris, tokyo, korea, hk, nyc, etc might not compare so well. Their infrastructure is so much better than ours. I was amazing at their rail system in paris even 24 years ago. I'm sure they've improved a lot more since then. And even those famous Asian cities, I've seen the GPS bus time arrival time 10 years ago when I was in Japan. We're just starting to implement it. And their transit system is amazing in Asia. Even NYC's transit has a lot of train lines, even if they are pretty dirty and run down looking. I think for Toronto to catch up to any of those famous cities, it would take over 20 years.

About 226psf for Chicago, I wonder about that too. It seems too cheap for the city.
 
Sorry, but I never implied that Toronto or Chicago were not International cities; nor was I basing World City status on property value.

Rather, the point, is that Toronto is compared to a list of cities in another league when realtors/developers are trying to justify the prices here as 'cheap' compared to there, yet, Toronto does not have the same International status.

As much as I love Toronto, we are not Paris, London, Tokyo, Moscow, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, New York, etc.
Hence, our RE should not be as costly as those cities.

Do a google search for the average Chicago value to confirm yourself.
I did not say $226 psf for prime real estate in Chicago.
The concensus for the average condo is $400 psf in Toronto GTA.
 
Late 80s pricing...

Does anyone here have hard stats on what prices were psf in the late 80s boom? I recently read somewhere that prices have only just reached where they used to be at that peak, just before the big crash of 89/90.....

And back to the point of this thread...which is more or less about if there is value in U at these high prices....They are really difficult to digest.

I think these prices are similar to One Bedford...I must check my files from three years ago.

For anyone looking for a good resale value, look into 736 Spadina, The Mosaic. Excellent Annex location and the flippers have just started to unload their units as final closing was one month ago.
 
I wouldn't buy this project.

What is there to justify the high price?

Location?

I don't think so.

First we know it's not on Bloor or Yorkville. The developer is trying to sell it as part of Bloor or Yorkville, but sorry, it just ain't. It's not One Bedford or One St. Thomas. Sure It's closed to Yonge St., but the stretch of Yonge St. between College to Bloor is not something I say as classy or desirable.

Second it's not in the core downtown either. The area is nothing like the Esplanade or King West (between University and Spadina). It's not near 'classy shopping area' either

Now I'm not part of the doom and gloom crowd. I still want the price to go up. I just sold one of my properties (2 months ago) qand made good profit on it. Another place I bought 18 months ago (pre-construction) was appraised by the bank (3 days ago) for more than 20% of the purchase price. What I'm hoping for is that in this market condition, that the buyers to be more selective which in turn would force the developers to be more responsible and creative, sell me something I've never seen before.

With that said I don't see anything special about this project that would justify for the premium price.
 
Comparing Similar Units

Okay, I did a quick unofficial survey of three similar units in U, Market Wharf (Tower Suite) and Casa (On Charles), and X also on Charles. All one bed plus small den, one bath, no parking plus balcony. They are all in the 350-370k range.
 
late 80's pricing

The Condo Observer said:
Does anyone here have hard stats on what prices were psf in the late 80s boom? I recently read somewhere that prices have only just reached where they used to be at that peak, just before the big crash of 89/90.....

For anyone looking for a good resale value, look into 736 Spadina, The Mosaic. Excellent Annex location and the flippers have just started to unload their units as final closing was one month ago.
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Here's a chart off Remax site regarding Average Selling Price from 1980-2007.
It states that the average price reported for 2007 was 38 percent higher than the previous peak in 1989.

http://www.randi-emmott.com/market.htm#avg price 80-99

TREB - residential average price from 1990 to 2008.
http://www.torontorealestatereports.com/marketwatch.htm

Bear in mind that there are more condos now, which are lower in price than single-family residences, hence, the average price is pulled down lower. This implies that average GTA prices are probably higher than what the average price indicates.

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Regarding late 80's pricing, I can offer an anedoctal example.

My parents bought their house in the east end of Toronto for $250K in 1990.
Last month, an identical house on the street sold for $300K after sitting on the market for 3months. It was originally listed at $320K.

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I've seen the layouts at The Mosaic and they are pretty bad.
You have LR/DR which are less than 10 ft wide ... that's pretty cramped.
I would say 10 ft width should be the minimum to allow for adequate traffic flow and various furniture placements.
 
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