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TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses

Shows how far behind the TTC is with the rest of world on electric buses, or lack thereof, because of penny-pinching anti-transit councillors.

I like the size of those doors. Used to be that eastern Europe was behind us in transit, today it's Toronto.
 
Shows how far behind the TTC is with the rest of world on electric buses, or lack thereof, because of penny-pinching anti-transit councillors.

I like the size of those doors. Used to be that eastern Europe was behind us in transit, today it's Toronto.
You seem to be totally consumed with trolley and electric buses and though your many examples of these elsewhere are interesting I think it may be time to move on. The TTC have shown zero official interest in either as something they are currently looking at.
 
You seem to be totally consumed with trolley and electric buses and though your many examples of these elsewhere are interesting I think it may be time to move on. The TTC have shown zero official interest in either as something they are currently looking at.
After their expience with hybrid buses, I don't see them rushing into purchasing electric buses.
 
You seem to be totally consumed with trolley and electric buses and though your many examples of these elsewhere are interesting I think it may be time to move on. The TTC have shown zero official interest in either as something they are currently looking at.

Which is why Councillor Joe Mihevc is bringing it up at the next TTC meeting, on February 21, 2017. See link.

MOTION TO PURSUE PAN-CANADIAN HARMONIZATION OF ELECTRIC BUS CHARGING TECHNOLOGY, TO REDUCE PROCUREMENT COSTS, IMPROVE PERFORMANCE AND INCREASE ADOPTION RATES OF ELECTRIC-BUS
TECHNOLOGY...
 
After their expience with hybrid buses, I don't see them rushing into purchasing electric buses.
TTC was pushed into the hybrid buses by council, since they were to be green as well the Fed's were picking up the tab for the extra cost to do so.

A few members of the current commissioners were the ones who push TTC to go hybrid when they were part of the commission years ago.

This time, TTC is taking a rear seat to see how things shake out for the battery power buses as well who may be front runner. Both Nova Bus and NFI are behind others at this time and we know what TTC views are when it comes to suppliers.
 
TTC was pushed into the hybrid buses by council, since they were to be green as well the Fed's were picking up the tab for the extra cost to do so.

A few members of the current commissioners were the ones who push TTC to go hybrid when they were part of the commission years ago.

This time, TTC is taking a rear seat to see how things shake out for the battery power buses as well who may be front runner. Both Nova Bus and NFI are behind others at this time and we know what TTC views are when it comes to suppliers.
Yes, that's what I said.
 
Rapid progress in the total capacity and capacity-per-weight of the batteries makes the case for electric buses more and more compelling.

The same makes trolleys (with catenary) less compelling because battery-powered electric buses require less infrastructure and afford a much greater routing flexibility.

TTC may sit out for a few more years, and perhaps that's not a bad thing. TTC has it hands full with other urgent matters; expanding the subways, light rail, BRT, integrating with GO, changing the fare structure.

I expect that electric buses will come, a bit sooner or a bit later.
 
Which is why Councillor Joe Mihevc is bringing it up at the next TTC meeting, on February 21, 2017. See link.
It's one thing to propose a standard be adopted and quite another to actually order vehicles that would use it. It's hard to be against setting standards so I expect his motion to pass - though the TTC is not always (ever?) rational!
 
Western Flyer had rebuilt the TTC's trolley bus fleet between 1969 and 1972. See link.
trolleybus-9000-00.jpg


Today, New Flyer is testing out electric buses in Winnipeg. See link and the video below the images.
15.jpg

electric_bus2.jpg


 
I think TTC could be forgiven for being gunshy about e-buses given how the hybrids turned out.
 
Electric buses are now cheaper than diesel/CNG and could dominate the market within 10 years, says Proterra CEO.

See link.

proterra-catalyst-e2.png


Transit vehicles today are mostly powered by gasoline, diesel, and CNG, while batteries only represent about 1% of the market. It is currently a small part of the industry, but it’s also the fastest growing fuel source in the sector and it’s starting to become highly competitive.

Electric bus maker Proterra is ramping up production and currently claims to be cheaper than diesel and CNG. It leads CEO Ryan Popple to make a bold prediction that battery-powered buses will dominate the transit bus market within 10 years.

More specifically, he says that the majority of new bus sales will be electric by 2025 and all new bus sales to transit agencies will be electric by 2030.

Proterra has so far only delivered a few hundred all-electric buses, but they have been announcing several major deals lately, like 73 buses from King County’s Metro Transit, that seem to indicate there’s a shift in the transit industry.

Some transit agencies are making commitments to transition their entire fleets to electric propulsion and companies like BYD, Proterra, and others, are fighting over the contracts.

Earlier this year, Proterra managed to secure a large $140 million round of financing and they are using the money to ramp up production in order to complete those new contracts.

The company recently hired Tesla’s former Vice President of Manufacturing to lead a production expansion at their facility in Greenville, South Carolina, and their new factory in Los Angeles County in order to satisfy the increasing demand.

Popple is also a former Tesla executive. He was convinced to work in the electrification of transport as a mean to reduce America’s dependence on petrol from the Middle East. It’s something that as a former US Army officer, like several other early employees at Tesla, came to him after witnessing first-hand the impact of the US presence in the region. For example, Tesla’s longtime Vice-President of Business Development, Diarmuid O’Connell, has a similar story for his reason behind joining Tesla.

In a recent podcast interview with Green Tech Media, Popple explained his path from the army to Tesla and finally to Proterra. It’s an interesting interview in which he explains his prediction for the electrification of the transit industry.
 
Forgot about this little note (from the February 21, 2017 meeting), from this link:

Decision: New Business: Electric Bus Charging

At its meeting of February 21, 2017, the Board struck out the recommendation in the New Business item and approved the following action:

That the Chief Executive Officer be directed to evaluate before September 2017 the merits of electric buses and develop a strategy for the TTC, including consideration of a pilot project; and refer the CUTA motion for consideration in the development of this report.



From link:

stm-electric-bus.jpg

stm-quick-charging-electric-bus.jpg

The quick charging stations will be located at either end of the 36 Monk line so the buses can be charged between runs


Going green: New STM electric buses put to test

Initiative is part of city's plan to develop 100% electric fleet by 2025

The first of three STM electric buses rolled out in Montreal on Wednesday.

The test batch is part of the city's plan to have a fully electric fleet by 2025.

Over the next few weeks, one bus at a time will be put into circulation along the 36 Monk line, going from Angrignon Metro station to Square Victoria Metro station.

Rapid charging stations have been set up at both locations, so that batteries can be charged during the day between routes. The buses are also going to be fully charged at regular charging stations overnight.

Each bus can run from 15 to 25 kilometres on a single charge. The Monk line was chosen in part for its length, around 11 kilometres.

The STM has been testing the electric buses to make sure they can stand up to Montreal's harsh winters, and now they are ready to take on passengers.

"The goal of this project is to determine how this technology will impact our operations," said STM Chairman Philippe Schnobb.

Keeping it local

The motors were designed in Boucherville, and the buses themselves were built in Saint-Eustache.

No timeline has been set for when the STM will be ready to roll out the whole fleet, but Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre, who was on hand at Tuesday's unveiling, told reporters he has confidence in the $11.9-million program.

"We start with three. Trust me, there will be more." said Coderre.​
 
Forgot about this little note (from the February 21, 2017 meeting), from this link:
Synchonicity. I was just reading this in the US press re something else:
All-electric Nova Bus vehicles hit Montreal streets
  • By SUZANNE MOORE News Editor
  • May 26, 2017


MONTREAL — The first all-electric Nova Bus buses are in service, just north of the border in Montreal.

The city is the first in North America to put them on the road.

The three vehicles come from Nova Bus factories in Saint-Eustache and Saint-François-du-Lac, Québec, but that's still great news for Plattsburgh, North Country Chamber of Commerce President Garry Douglas said.

"Nova Bus sees a strategic opportunity in North America for leading an almost inevitable transition to electric bus fleets," he said.

"This deployment in Montreal, a major North American city, is bound to draw attention in the American market, where Nova plans to actively promote its readiness to help U.S. customers move in this direction.

"The Plattsburgh plant is fully prepared to produce electric buses here and has already done so. This was a topic of recent meetings in Washington and has truly major potential for Nova Bus and its North Country suppliers.



CITY MOBILITY

The buses, acquired by the Société de transport de Montréal with financial support from the Green Fund of the Government of Quebec, are part of the Montreal City Mobility project," said a press release from Nova Bus.

The project is a result of the Quebec Transport Electrification Action Plan 2015-2020.

Nova Bus, a member of the Volvo Group, is responsible for the development of the buses and will support the the Société de transport throughout the evaluation of the project, according to the release.

"It is a great feeling for our team to be part of changing our world, making it a greener place and helping our commuters travel with great comfort and peace of mind,” said Ralph Acs, president of Nova Bus and Prevost divisions and senior vice president of Business Region Americas, in a statement.

The City Mobility program is an initiative of Volvo and Nova Bus that is already established elsewhere in the world.

The aim, said the release, is to "make Montreal a showcase for technologies associated with electromobility."

"We congratulate Nova Bus on its leading role in this exciting, cutting-edge development and look forward to continuing to work with them to spread the word in the States," Douglas said.
http://www.pressrepublican.com/news...cle_4e40c18d-e69a-5295-b305-9d33481aa831.html

I think the TTC should be watching this closely.
 
Meanwhile, in Los Angeles County...

Metro can go two ways at once in choosing L.A.’s new bus fleet

From this link:

When the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s board of directors meets on June 22, it will face an important decision that will affect all of us years from now. On that day, board members will determine whether the nation’s second-largest bus fleet in North America should run on electricity or on renewable gas.

With advances in technology, Metro’s board doesn’t have to pick one over the other because both are viable options and both are super clean — and even staff at Metro recognize this reality. Recently, employees at Metro found that near-zero-emissions compressed natural gas (CNG) buses fueled with renewable gas and battery-powered electric buses will help make Metro’s 2,472 buses the cleanest bus fleet in America, based on an internal analysis.

However, there is an important fact the staff report does not discuss: Metro using both technologies will also be the best way our transit system can help accelerate the cleanup of the far larger and far dirtier heavy-duty truck sector.

Electric power will likely work on short-haul applications, like drayage trucking. But we will need near-zero-emission natural gas on medium and long-haul applications — or live with toxic diesel pollution much longer than necessary.

Currently, all of Metro’s buses run on CNG. The air-quality benefits of using CNG rather than diesel are very significant. Some of us remember “smog days.” We don’t really experience them anymore — thanks in part to Metro and other bus operators switching from diesel to CNG. We can build on those gains by urging Metro to purchase both electric and new super clean CNG buses powered with renewable gas from landfills or dairies. Use each technology where it is most appropriate: electric on the shorter routes, renewable natural gas on longer routes.

Aren’t electric buses cleaner? Metro staff and their consultant, Ramboll Environ, say not necessarily so. They found using CNG buses fueled by renewable gas would better reduce greenhouse gases and other pollutants than electric, taking into account power plant emissions and diversion of methane from landfills and dairies that otherwise goes directly into the atmosphere. Near-zero natural-gas technology is also less expensive, less than half the cost of electric.

But clean-air advocates should take into account the vital role our transit fleets play in facilitating deployment of clean heavy-duty commercial trucks, where far greater levels of air pollution and greenhouse gases are at stake.

Buses and trucks use similar engine technologies. Clean technologies that work well in transit gain greater acceptance by the trucking industry. Enhanced production of clean engines for transit enables economies of scale, reduces costs, making them more affordable to commercial truck operators.

Successfully deploying both super-clean natural gas as well as electric transit buses is the best strategy to help transition the trucking industry to cleaner technologies in all applications, short-haul and long-haul. That is the best strategy to improve our region’s air quality.

Policies to have buses manufactured in Los Angeles County are also a good idea for both technologies. Voter approval of Measures R and M will give Metro leverage as a big customer for cleaner buses for years to come.

For the next generation of buses, Metro should choose the path that will ensure reliable transit operations, produce significantly cleaner air, spend tax revenues effectively, and facilitate solutions to pollution from heavy-duty trucks as well. Purchasing buses powered both by renewable gas and electric power will best do all of these things.

Metro should buy both.

Meanwhile, the TTC got rid of both CNG and electric (trolley) buses. Time for the TTC to return?
 

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