W. K. Lis
Superstar
In Zurich, people are welcome, cars are not. Want the streetcars or light rail to run well, give them (really give them) the priority they should have.
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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
In Zurich, people are welcome, cars are not. Want the streetcars or light rail to run well, give them (really give them) the priority they should have.
Rainforest
Senior Member
A 2 km stop spacing for an urban subway is too wide; about 1 km is reasonable.
The Glencairn station is not bad at all; yes its usage counts are on the low end, but do not forget that it is a surface station and its maintenance costs should be much smaller than those for the underground stations. At the same time, this station is a major convenience for the residents of multiple apartment buildings located between Marlee and Allen Rd.
A station at Faywood is more up to debate, assuming it will have to be built underground. Yet, it would be better used than many existing stations on the BD line, that are often placed 600 - 700 m apart.
My take: stations at both Bathurst and Faywood definitely should be built, even if the line runs underground all the way from Yonge to Downsview.
A Senlac station should be discussed with the residents; if they are not eager to get a station, then it can be skipped. Obviously, if the line surfaces just west of Yonge, a station at Senlac, or somewhere between Yonge and Bathurst, will become more affordable.
An infill station at Willowdale is not needed in any case; I do not see any good reason to spend money and disrupt the existing service if a) the residents do not want a station, and b) even if that station is built, it will have limited usage.
Rainforest
Senior Member
It is hard to disagree with the notion that an advance study of the potential new technology is useful.
However, I am bit concerned that a compound plan, that addresses both DRL and the Sheppard / Finch corridor, may be too costly and therefore less appealing for any politician willing to cast his/her lot with the transit expansion. It is possible though that my concerns are not fully justified.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
A survey of the residents around Willowdale Avenue and Sheppard Avenue East should be requested by the Ward 23 Willowdale Councillor John Filion. Just to get a "feel" if the residents still do not want a station (subway or light rail) in their area.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Fair enough; especially if takes 15-20 years to resume transit expansion in the Sheppard corridor. By that time, preferences of the residents might change.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I imagine a survey of homeowners and residents will give widely different results.
Those owning monster homes would love the connectivity and Inc house values. Those renting the war era homes would not want it since they likely won't be there in 10 years when it's complete.
Those owning monster homes would love the connectivity and Inc house values. Those renting the war era homes would not want it since they likely won't be there in 10 years when it's complete.
BurlOak
Senior Member
My interline idea has the Sheppard West Station (east entrance) on the Sheppard line located about 250m closer to Faywood (still shares Sam bus bays), knocking at 1/3 off that walking time.
coffey1
Active Member
I want to see the Malvern LRT before Sheppard as much as you. Something good will be built on Sheppard no matter what. That's a given. Malvern (Town Center area) itself is an easy screw job target by Politicians. UTSC has a bit of Political pull & some politics behind the tuition going towards the Pan Am Centre with a promise of an LRT years ago. Hopefully they fund and extend this Xtown extension line into Malvern.
Don't get me twisted. I just want to see respectful attention to detail in designs which take into consideration the current network, & a sufficient funding model or all aspect of this transit roll out in the entire City. It's unfortunate we had to start from scratch but Tory seems to have got the message on the flawed LRT roll out, steadied the ship & we can move forward with planning full steam ahead.....
Recessions. We could be on the verge of another & these shouldn't be allowed to be used as an excuse to stop building infrastructure. Recessions come and go almost ever 7 to 10 years. This City has made so many people wealthy there should be no excuses for raising taxes to improve the infrastructure of this great place. If anything it will be a decent job creator for something that is needed no matter what the economic climate.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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hah! I agree, the problem is will we have to build those later when they change their minds?
I think this can all be built at the same time. Hopefully soon. I mean let's be honest, the sheppard stub looks ugly on the map. But Kennedy to UTSC is one of the longest bus routes in the system.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
The newly built Buddhist temple would also benefit from a direct entrance to the station.
WislaHD
Superstar
Thanks for reposting that video - I had been looking for it.
I see no reason why Sheppard couldn't be like this.
dowlingm
Senior Member
A high floor dual power dual voltage LRV might work between Sheppard Subway and Sheppard Overground, assuming Sheppard Subway regauged to 1435mm and the power rail/platforms relocated to fit a 2.65m wide vehicle rather than a 3.14m wide one. Expensive per unit, I'd imagine, bespoke maintenance bays and more expensive stops too?
Might have to leave the 600V DC underground traction power alone if it's cheaper to do voltage change on vehicle than rework TTC traction power distribution. Maybe Siemens could build a variant of the S200s they are selling to Calgary.
Might have to leave the 600V DC underground traction power alone if it's cheaper to do voltage change on vehicle than rework TTC traction power distribution. Maybe Siemens could build a variant of the S200s they are selling to Calgary.
Northern Light
Superstar
To my understanding, even before the cost-cutting, Willowdale station was nixed because of the surrounding community.
It wasn't that they objected to the station, per se, it was the related upzoning they didn't want.
Willowdale station should have been built, IF you're going to build that subway anyway............because doing so would have eliminated any local bus service on Sheppard, west of Leslie.
It also would have allowed the Willowdale bus to terminate at the new Willowdale station.
Two moves that would substantially improve the cost-efficiency of transit in the area, in addition to adding ridership to the subway, particularly in off-peak hours.
Of course, it was/is essential that if you do this, you upzone the hell out that intersection and the remaining Sheppard corridor from Yonge-Bayview, as well as at least allowing six-storey along Willowdale w/in 500M of Sheppard.
The are would have been unalterably opposed back in the early 90s...........perhaps less so now, but I'd still imagine some pretty strong opposition.
robmausser
Senior Member
Ah oops, my mistake. I reverse commute early in the morning so I jumped to that conclusion.
It sounds like you're talking about the "Scarborough Wye" that Mike Schaabas proposed in the Neptis report on the Big Move, except with the Sheppard ICTS extended north west to Finch:
Sheppard should have been an elevated extension of SRT from the get go.
The service levels never warranted a subway.
Should have continued the Scarb SRT (ICTS) elevated along Sheppard phase 1 and the Malvern extension phase 2.
Phase 3 could have extended it further west along Finch to Humber.
ICTS purpose was for the suburbs, it would have been a large network and not a stubway and a weird train you had to transfer at Kennedy for no reason.
Could have been all done by now.
Oh well...
lead82
Senior Member
The Sheppard line is a suburban feeder line. It doesn't need stops every 1km unless justified by current density. Faywood, Senlac and Willowdale all do not have enough density currently or planned to justify a station. There is no food traffic and the 104, 98 bus routes run infrequently and often have less than a handful of people on them. I'm surprised the 98 hasn't been cancelled. It never has more than a few people on it. It would be cheaper for the TTC to run a minivan service.
Even with the mid-rise developments along Sheppard, the density isn't there. This subway should be used as an express route to get across the city. Eglinton will be faster than the bus once it opens but it will be slower than the Bloor line. If Sheppard connected Sheppard West to Scarborough Centre it would be a quick connection that could make travel across the top of the city very quick in rush hour.
Even with the mid-rise developments along Sheppard, the density isn't there. This subway should be used as an express route to get across the city. Eglinton will be faster than the bus once it opens but it will be slower than the Bloor line. If Sheppard connected Sheppard West to Scarborough Centre it would be a quick connection that could make travel across the top of the city very quick in rush hour.