Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Cobra]

The majority of queens park is downtown. You have transportation in the keel 401 area, I think another ministry in Guelph (agricu), but the majority is at Queens Park area

I know that but the Ontario Government has staff all over the province, same for the Federal government. From a cost effective point of view, it works and also, as a governmental entity, having staff working from offices outside of the capital/main area is not abnormal.

Pretty sure I already said that the subway argument was a dumb one, but from a cost saving point of view and being more representative, I wouldn't be surprised if that happens

 

[Palma]

They wouldn't be moving city hall, perhaps a few departments out of the core, don't get what's the big deal.

Also, instead of joking about Scarborough not being desirable, how about supporting the city trying to reverse that? If someone would have ever told me in the 80s that Harlem and Brooklyn would ever be desirable, I would have fainted...and there it is. So can Scarborough

well, if your one of those employees that now needs to make the trek to scarborough and you live perhaps in the west end, it is a big deal. Plus that's a whole difference between working downtown than in the suburb. I work at Yonge and north of Sheppard area, but I still do not like compared to working downtown, in the king and bay area. In winter there is no place to go or shop at. It sucks. And Mel lastman area is probably tops on the list to work after downtown when talking about city centres

 

[Cobra]

well, if your one of those employees that now needs to make the trek to scarborough and you live perhaps in the west end, it is a big deal. Plus that's a whole difference between working downtown than in the suburb. I work at Yonge and north of Sheppard area, but I still do not like compared to working downtown, in the king and bay area. In winter there is no place to go or shop at. It sucks. And Mel lastman area is probably tops on the list to work after downtown when talking about city centres

Why is it a big deal to travel from west to east? I thought that the current Scarborough RT was more than enough and convenient and all it needed was new trains? So why is it the end of the world having to travel east, yet "truly" improving the east-west travel is met with so much resistance? hmm... Scarborough Centre has everything you need (Shopping, movies, food). You have a right to dislike the area but you shouldn't be making false claims like "there's nothing there"... Actually, there's not much at Sheppard-Yonge either...yet.

 

[justindw]

Yeah, I'm in the west end(ish). If someone replaced my 5km commute with a 23km commute for political reasons, I would simply find a new job. Which would cost my employers enough that it would take years to decades to make up the difference in rent, and I'm not THAT well paid. That's going to be true even with the new subway. It's certainly not a no brainer (I've seen the decision making for multiple office relocations, and it is not simple). And, hey, if I don't want to work in an area because I don't feel it has the amenities that I want (and no, the huge mall surrounded by the sea of parking doesn't) then people screaming "but it's got everything you want! I know this without knowing anything about you!" on the internet certainly isn't going to change that opinion.

 

[Cobra]

Yeah, I'm in the west end(ish). If someone replaced my 5km commute with a 23km commute for political reasons, I would simply find a new job. Which would cost my employers enough that it would take years to decades to make up the difference in rent, and I'm not THAT well paid. That's going to be true even with the new subway. It's certainly not a no brainer (I've seen the decision making for multiple office relocations, and it is not simple). And, hey, if I don't want to work in an area because I don't feel it has the amenities that I want (and no, the huge mall surrounded by the sea of parking doesn't) then people screaming "but it's got everything you want! I know this without knowing anything about you!" on the internet certainly isn't going to change that opinion.

Who said it would be for political reasons? If anything, relocating and selling real estate is a viable way to raise capital and cut spending. The Federal government did it under Harper.

But hey, you can always quit your job and that's your right, but in term of public service, people would line up for a chance to get in... Scarborough or not and I doubt anyone would quit over that

 

[amnesiajune]

Also, instead of joking about Scarborough not being desirable, how about supporting the city trying to reverse that? If someone would have ever told me in the 80s that Harlem and Brooklyn would ever be desirable, I would have fainted...and there it is. So can Scarborough

A lot of that, funny enough, is a result of good subway service. The New York subway system used to be a shithole because they spent four decades reducing service and deferring maintenance, to the point where crime & graffiti were everywhere. In the 1980s NYC spent the equivalent of $30-40 billion cleaning up and renovating the subway, so suddenly any part of NYC within walking distance of the subway (in other words, all of Harlem, and huge parts of Brooklyn) became much more desirable.

 

[crs1026]

because its the easiest place to get to/. Makes no sense to have the city hall of a city in the suburbs. And who wants to live in scarborough. oops, this is probably a sore point. This will never happen

There are already City staff housed in non-central locations - Etobicoke City Center being a good example. I don't know what became of the former Scarborough City Hall or other City buildings in the east end, but I bet you will find city employees tucked in here and there.

Transportation time is a real issue. If you work at ECC and have to come downtown for a meeting even once a week, that's a huge loss of productive work time. Then you get into providing hotelling work stations, etc. so people can work a whole half or whole day downtown. Not everyone can work from their laptop or car - you have people who need specialised IT for access to drawings, CAD, etc. And people who need frequent access to related departments and work functions. Move one department to Scarboro, and the others lose productivity.

There is a real risk that the City would be pressured by the pol's to move people out of the downtown who are there for good reason, ie it's the cost effective place for them to work from, rent differential or not. One would hope the City's Real Estate department was on top of this all along. If there are valid opportunities that haven't already been acted on, someone needs to get fired.

- Paul

 

[Zach6668]

I know that but the Ontario Government has staff all over the province, same for the Federal government.

And so does the City of Toronto... already... (all over the city - including Scarborough Town Centre)

 

[Zach6668]

You can talk about moving one department or something, but these departments don't work in silos (as much as critics would have you believe that), being in proximity to the people who you need to work with has serious advantages. There's a reason why companies cluster in downtowns, for example, around other companies they may work with or share information with, etc.

It might make sense at some point to move more employees to Scarborough... like, say, it spontaneously started growing and there was greater demand on the planning staff there at STC, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Only reason to do it would be this weird political movement.

Is it the same people calling for this who want the city to be run like a business?

 

[salsa]

@Cobra, I have spend a lot of years working in the suburbs and only recently was I able to get what I've always wanted, which is to work downtown. I hated those places. Everyday I couldn't wait to go back home as soon as the work day ended. Not anymore. My commute no longer takes well over an hour; now it's just a short bus ride to the subway from the north end of the city. When the weather was better I cycled to work everyday, sometimes not spending even a dime on TTC fares for weeks at a time. During lunch break I have hundreds of places to choose from like Dundas Square, Queen St West or College Park, and when that's not satisfying enough I could bike 5 or 10 minutes to further away places like Bloor, or Bathurst Street. The same is true for shopping. In addition to all that, I really enjoy the street life, the interesting architecture, and the various events that are always happening at Nathan Philips Square or other places.

I am so goddamn sick and tired of Scarborough's ongoing transit clusterfk and their crop of self-serving politicians who are still unable to put forward a credible case for the subway aside from getting re-elected. If the private sector couldn't be convinced to construct a single commercial development for many, many years, then maybe this whole Scarborough Centre thing simply ain't working out. So to anyone who suggests that the jobs of people like me should be shipped out to Scarborough for the sake of propping up Glen Debaeremaeker's development dreams which have proven to be more fanciful than realistic...I'm sorry but I want nothing to do with any of this.

 

[Forgotten]

This one on the Evergreen Extension cost $28M.

Two 80m platforms, 1 entrance/exit with provision of a second one on the other side, 1 emergency exit, 2 elevators, 4 escalators, 4 fare gates.

Cost breakdown: Federal $7M, city/mall/private developer of highrise buildings nearby $21M

Where's the ramp for the bus to pull up to that stop? Expensive for what amounts to a slightly larger bus shelter.

 

[sixrings]

Anyone play Suspension Railroad Simulator on Wii U?

 

[Rainforest]

Subway boosters are getting so desperate to make their failed centre "viable" that now they're asking John Tory to relocate 3000 city employees from downtown buildings to Scarborough Centre.

“By moving jobs now, Toronto Council can send a strong signal that they are committed to implementing the transit plan. This will also give businesses confidence that Scarborough is a great place to have corporate headquarters.”

http://m.insidetoronto.com/news-sto...-transfer-3-000-municipal-jobs-to-scarborough

Subway deniers are getting so desperate in their failed attempts to stop SSE that they jeer at this perfectly reasonable plan.

 

[Rainforest]

because its the easiest place to get to/. Makes no sense to have the city hall of a city in the suburbs. And who wants to live in scarborough. oops, this is probably a sore point. This will never happen

Not for everybody. Quite a few folks who live at the east end will find it easier to travel to STC than to downtown in the perpetually crowded subways.

Everybody complains that there isn't enough transit capacity into downtown; then why not try to change the direction of some trips.

Plus, it will give the east-end residents, many of whom are either recent immigrants or have recently moved into the city, a better chance to get a reasonably well-paid government job.

 

[Rainforest]

You can talk about moving one department or something, but these departments don't work in silos (as much as critics would have you believe that), being in proximity to the people who you need to work with has serious advantages. There's a reason why companies cluster in downtowns, for example, around other companies they may work with or share information with, etc.

It might make sense at some point to move more employees to Scarborough... like, say, it spontaneously started growing and there was greater demand on the planning staff there at STC, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Only reason to do it would be this weird political movement.

Is it the same people calling for this who want the city to be run like a business?

The planning department does not have to be located in the area where most of the growth occurs.