Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Juan_Lennon416]

Just build anything...most people will wind up driving anyways.

 

[coffey1]

Scarborough was going to get a line on sheppard, a RT conversion and a eglinton line. I dont know how that seems unfair. If you live in woodbine or rexdale then I can see the frustration but three lines seems like quite a bit. I will agree that they should have made Eglinton connect with the RT line and Sheppard be fully LRT but I do think given enough time sheppard subway would see a conversion, people just need to see how well Eglinton crosstown works. I have yet to see a Coffey1 may of what you would like so your comments are about the same as Mr Fords, Subway Subway Subway mantra. Plus we would need to see how to fun this. I think there are all sorts of people left out. If I lived on Jane and I was expecting a LRT I would feel left out. If i lived between Keele West Subway station and Finch station on Finch I would feel left out. But hey scarborough is apparently the only place which matters and "deserves" to have a subway. Thank God I moved away from that part of town. I don't know whats worse, its transit or its residents.

The Sheppard line only helps out the far eastern commuters. Even then a single bus to the North York stubway offers more convenience especially for disabled & elderly. The SLRT is somewhat palatable, although it's western route design is not really efficient & there other options as you mentioned. Also important South & all of South East Scarborough has & would recieve nothing. Not even a streetcar. Why would they support an inefficient stub on Sheppard?

Are we really going to tear up roads, cause more traffic, for transit that will hardly help in terms of commute times and is integrated so poorly it's inconvenient & unattractive.

Please don't compare Scarborough to other areas of Toronto that have been neglected. Compare it to the area which have all the transit. Build LRT that actually make it easier for commuters. We should all be working to fix all of Toronto neglected areas. Yes it costs money to fix & throwing small bones here and there doesn't cut it. Especially when these patch lines don't even integrate in Toronto's current infrastructure

Im saying take the 3-4 Billion and fix the flaws in the current system and design a properly integrated complete LRT network.

AND ALSO FIX THE REST OF THE CITY WHICH IS NEGLECTED. And if this continues to be ignored im sure Subways and polarizing Politics will continue.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Scarborough was going to get a line on sheppard, a RT conversion and a eglinton line. I dont know how that seems unfair. If you live in woodbine or rexdale then I can see the frustration but three lines seems like quite a bit. I will agree that they should have made Eglinton connect with the RT line and Sheppard be fully LRT but I do think given enough time sheppard subway would see a conversion, people just need to see how well Eglinton crosstown works. I have yet to see a Coffey1 map of what you would like so your comments are about the same as Mr Fords, Subway Subway Subway mantra. Plus we would need to see how to fund this. I think there are all sorts of people left out. If I lived on Jane and I was expecting a LRT I would feel left out. If i lived between Keele West Subway station and Finch station on Finch I would feel left out. But hey scarborough is apparently the only place which matters and "deserves" to have a subway. Thank God I moved away from that part of town. I don't know whats worse, its transit or its residents whom cry "poor me."

a great big YAWN!

Scarborough this...Scarborough that...bark, bark bark!

 

[salsa]

South & all of South East Scarborough has & would recieve nothing. Not even a streetcar. Why would they support an inefficient stub on Sheppard?

So the Lakeshore RER line doesn't count? Your idea of superior transit is a long and crowded subway ride that stops at dozens of stations, instead of a rapid ~25 min ride to downtown?

 

[sixrings]

Are we really going to tear up roads, cause more traffic, for transit that will hardly help in terms of commute times and is integrated so poorly it's inconvenient & unattractive.

AND ALSO FIX THE REST OF THE CITY WHICH IS NEGLECTED. And if this continues to be ignored im sure Subways and polarizing Politics will continue.

Just to let you know I now live on Eglinton which is being tunneled and guess what they are tearing up the road despite being underground and most of my neighbours think its a waste of time because they will still drive. Building underground doesnt mean there wont be traffic disruption. If anything it feels like Eglinton in some ways is getting it worse then St. Clair. Well thank you for sharing your passion for transit in the rest of the city. I was hoping transit city was going to HELP take care of that but apparently that had to get chopped up so much its barely recognizable anymore but hopefully will be expanded one day (FINCH and EGLINTON). If it makes you happy I know I am overboard in my thoughts but I believe any street that currently has a BLUE LINE BUS route deserves to have a LRT. That way we build a true network. It would cost a lot and may not be underground like some want but it would be a network similar to the streetcar network south of bloor.

 

[coffey1]

So the Lakeshore RER line doesn't count? Your idea of superior transit is a long and crowded subway ride that stops at dozens of stations, instead of a rapid ~25 min ride to downtown?

No it doesn't count & no that's not my idea. My idea is more along the lines of a properly integrated LRT network for all Scarborough & a GO/TTC easy to use monthly pass. But nice try

If Scarborough is only receiving poorly designed patch lines with more transfers & leaves out large chunks of Scarborough that certainly negates building an effective, "fair" local network then I don't see the point. Subways will be much better than that crap

 

[coffey1]

Just to let you know I now live on Eglinton which is being tunneled and guess what they are tearing up the road despite being underground and most of my neighbours think its a waste of time because they will still drive. Building underground doesnt mean there wont be traffic disruption. If anything it feels like Eglinton in some ways is getting it worse then St. Clair. Well thank you for sharing your passion for transit in the rest of the city. I was hoping transit city was going to HELP take care of that but apparently that had to get chopped up so much its barely recognizable anymore but hopefully will be expanded one day (FINCH and EGLINTON). If it makes you happy I know I am overboard in my thoughts but I believe any street that currently has a BLUE LINE BUS route deserves to have a LRT. That way we build a true network. It would cost a lot and may not be underground like some want but it would be a network similar to the streetcar network south of bloor.

I agree. Whether we build above or below there's a major traffic disruption. I really don't believe we need to tunnel at all but if we are going to build a patch network & leave unfair legacy lines in place without fixing than don't bother building at all as it's not worth causing massive construction pain for such a ridiculous transit scheme which has benefits are highly questionable.

 

[sixrings]

As a youth I hated how so many buses went through Scarborough town. Scarborough needs more lines not a short subway extension

 

[WislaHD]

Subway fetish does injustice to Scarborough: Keenan
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/12/01/subway-fetish-does-injustice-to-scarborough-keenan.html

"Here comes Margaret Kohn, no less a luminary than the acting director for the Centre for Ethics at the University of Toronto’s Scarborough Campus, to demonstrate the unrelenting Fordian transit illiteracy that persists in this city when it comes to the subject of Scarborough" - Edward Keenan

The response to Kohn's ridiculous opinion piece.

edit: I should've read the last page closer, I see this has been posted already. Apologies.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

No it doesn't count & no that's not my idea. My idea is more along the lines of a properly integrated LRT network for all Scarborough & a GO/TTC easy to use monthly pass. But nice try

If Scarborough is only receiving poorly designed patch lines with more transfers & leaves out large chunks of Scarborough that certainly negates building an effective, "fair" local network then I don't see the point. Subways will be much better than that crap

Why doesn't it count?

 

[coffey1]

Why doesn't it count?

Salsa asked if Lakeshore GO RER counts as a substitution to local transit for southern Scarborough. In my opinion its a means to get to local transit but doesn't come close to providing the benefits of rapid transit along Kingston Rd. Also there is a large amount of poor commuters in pockets along the SMLRT route & they should be have the same TTC fares as per the rest of Toronto.

And by this logic we can tear up the Lakeshore west streetcar tracks as there is not need for LRT since there will be GO RER in place there as well.

Im also explaining that neglecting transit for these commuters in these areas only creates animosity & also provided support for the SSE over being built over LRT for the convenience of one transfer instead of two.

How can people really expect support in Scarborough for this nonsense LRT plan when we basically have Sheppard commuters arguing with themselves over the absurd LRT transfer to the stubway, a large portion of Scarborough that will receive no transit in the South, South EAST and Central- East as there is no sign of the SMLRT in the next 100 years. The SSE support only grows stronger because of this failed & unfair LRT plan.

Fix the LRT design, fund a complete useful LRT network for all areas of Scarborough (and other neglected areas of Toronto as well) otherwise don't bother

 

[sixrings]

Salsa asked if Lakeshore GO RER counts as a substitution to local transit for southern Scarborough. In my opinion its a means to get to local transit but doesn't come close to providing the benefits of rapid transit along Kingston Rd. Also there is a large amount of poor commuters in pockets along the SMLRT route & they should be have the same TTC fares as per the rest of Toronto.

And by this logic we can tear up the Lakeshore west streetcar tracks as there is not need for LRT since there will be GO RER in place there as well.

Im also explaining that neglecting transit for these commuters in these areas only creates animosity & also provided support for the SSE over being built over LRT for the convince of one transfer instead of two.

How can people really expect support in Scarborough for this nonsense LRT plan when we basically have Sheppard commuters arguing with themselves over the absurd LRT transfer to the stubway, a large portion of Scarborough that will receive no transit in the South, South EAST and Central- East with no sign of the SMLRT in the next 100 years. The SSE support only grows stronger because of this failed & unfair LRT plan.

Fix the LRT design, fund a complete useful LRT network for all areas of Scarborough (and other neglected areas of Toronto as well) otherwise don't bother

I would still like to see a map of what you really want done... not words, a map. It would be easier to visualize.

 

[coffey1]

I would still like to see a map of what you really want done... not words, a map. It would be easier to visualize.

I will draw on a map when i get the chance. But It's pretty simple. It's basically the original transit City plan but FUNDED & modified for real life use in terms of fair integration, convenience, attractiveness, & funding to provide proper local network coverage

1. Convert the Sheppard stubway to LRT and build the Sheppard LRT to Meadowvale
2. Build the SMLRT to serve UTSC, Malvern, Kingston Galloway, Scarborough Village
3. Replace the RT with Eglinton LRT spur, GO RER spur or even the SLRT proposed.

IMO this is a useful, FAIR an effective plan.

The SSE takes a much more effective route than the RT/ proposed LRT for commuters in the East and Southeast. Therefore if we neglect to build the SMLRT than subway would be a much preferred option for many. If the SSE is built I fully expect Sheppard to loop. So the cost is likely over 5-6 billion.

Why not build a proper LRT network that integrates properly & garners support for all areas of the City. The cheaping out & building only patches is just as insane as building subways.

 

[torontologist]

As a youth I hated how so many buses went through Scarborough town. Scarborough needs more lines not a short subway extension

Bingo. What we should be doing is redirecting Scarborough bus routes to Kennedy rather than STC. Completely negates the need for a subway extension.

Then we could direct funds to constructing an LRT that actually builds up Scarborough and makes it more walkable, and is more conducive to local trips, which are the majority of trips anyway.

This also frees up money for more frequent buses and more lines, which I think would have the greatest effect on people's everyday lives.

 

[arcum]

Bingo. What we should be doing is redirecting Scarborough bus routes to Kennedy rather than STC. Completely negates the need for a subway extension.

So your solution is to force residents of north Scarborough to spend another 20 minutes on the bus so they can get on at Kennedy instead of STC/Sheppard?

What makes a bus hub at STC bad, but hubs at Kipling/Islington, Downsview, and Finch good?