torontologist
Active Member
Yeah, it's going to be Carlaw. Pressure from residents and the local councillor was enough to sway it. I'm interested to see just how much more expensive it's going to be.
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s
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Cobra
Senior Member
seems like Carlaw Alignment will be chosen. Yes it's higher cost but it makes more sense to build it there.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I dread to see it - and it doesn't bode well for cost containment if one keep on choosing the highest cost options for fear of NIMBYism. And look at Gerrard/Carlaw:
It's going to eat up the plaza (privately owned) - which meant expropriation. And you bet that someone will want a pavilion entrance for this sucker, and a park - and no condos. I also love this bit about less impact on "stable residential area"
Like just how many units are there right along Carlaw?
Perhaps they should have called it less impact on single detached residential instead.
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Kitsune
Senior Member
With smartrack going right over the existing rail bridge(s) - why couldnt they redesign the bridge to allow the subway to run over top of the sewer for Carlaw like they said they could do for Pape ?
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Perhaps the trains could go through the sewer.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
I'm so relieved (pardon the pun) that Carlaw has been chosen over Pape. Now if only a Parliament Street station could be incorporated into the plan with the "Sherbourne" stop shifted west to Jarvis, then the proposal would be near perfection.
DonValleyRainbow
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Although a lot of the noise has been triggered by NIMBYism, I fully disagree this is a bad decision and that it was made on the basis of NIMBYism.
From all the times I've walked through that area, I have always believed that the Carlaw alignment put entrances within closer walking distance of more subway-compatible land uses. In particular, the one at Carlaw and Colgate; although I think they could have explored putting it further north, it opens it up to the current higher-density uses on Carlaw between Queen and Pape. There's even some parking lots that can be infilled still.
salsa
Senior Member
The slides show that the Carlaw alignment is better in every metric except for cost. It doesn't increase travel time compared to Pape. It supports a greater concentration of residents. It has decent development potential while Pape has literally none. A station there is way more compatible with the neighbourhood than having it on a tiny residential street. It connects with the Pape bus, which will be really important when that bus starts to serve thousands of new residents in the Port Lands.
So what is the problem here exactly? If anything these NIMBY actually produced a better outcome, and it's one that I've long preferred to begin with for the same reasons as outlined in the slides.
A lot more than Pape.
DonValleyRainbow
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Cobra
Senior Member
The cheapest option isn't always the best one. I think the Spadina line being in the middle of Allen Road instead of Dufferin would have taught us as much. If there's one new line we can't afford to get wrong it's Relief Long
Avenue
Active Member
Streetcar service along 504 King instead of heading to Broadview can take a new alignment up Parliament Street to Castle Frank Stn via the new Parliament Stn at Queen Street. This will further intensify growth along the Parliament corridor, which is outpacing the Sherbourne corridor in terms of density.
514 Cherry gets absorbed into the former 501 Queen car to Neville Park and 503 Kingston Rd car to Bingham.
75 Sherbourne to account for a non-direct transfer point at Queen and Sherbourne does an on-street loop of Shutter, George and Queen Sts before resuming its normal routing. This is similar to what's being proposed for the 47 Lansdowne bus when accessing the new Caledonia Stn.
To simplify this picture, which I think is necessary: I'd combine 501 and 504 (transfer at the West Donlands station) and do away with 514 Cherry. The need to have a Parliament streetcar going into Castle Frank isn't practically justified to me either.
Fully agreed. One of the stupidest thing in this city.
coopEng
Active Member
Why? At grade, cheap to build, lower maintenance. If it wasnt built here it probably wouldnt have been built at all. Is it stupid because it isnt under Bathurst or Dufferin?
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
And plus you could always build a grand avenue with density over the Allen to make the subway more worthwhile.
There's nothing that says Pape can't be redeveloped in this area. Even if the subway goes down Carlaw.
Cobra
Senior Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but Pape is totally residential. There's nothing to redevelop there while Carlaw actually does have redevelopment potential to complement the nearby neighbourhoods. I think that's what the report was heavily implying.