Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

W. K. Lis said:
Wonder if Pape & Danforth will evolve into a Yonge & Bloor 2.0 in the decades after the DRL is built?

Wonder if Eglinton & Don Mills will evolve into a Yonge & Eglinton 2.0 in the decades + 10 after the DRL is built?
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Yonge & Eglinton is Yonge & Bloor 2.0. Pape & Danforth and Eglinton & Don Mills could be Yonge & Bloor 2.1 and 2.2. :p

WislaHD said:
Nope, because NIMBYs.

Nope, because we are dedicated to condo-in-the-park(ing lot) design for Eglinton and Don Mills with auto-centric arterial roads. See the plans for the Celestica site.

If it was up to me, the Celestica site (and the entirity of the area between Leslie and Wynford, Barber Greene to Science Center) would be subject to this: (Link)

Then it would become the new Yonge&Eglinton, or perhaps something even better. We are not so forward thinking though. With the DRL, we could have an entire dense downtown-like area built to house a significant part of our upcoming population boom just 15-20 minutes subway ride away from our downtown core.

Instead, we will build a couple condos.
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I'll take your point about NIMBYs, but remember we're talking about a new subway going straight to downtown (no transfers to an old and overcrowded Yonge line) in a new environment of development pressure. For Pape & Danforth, the heritage and nearby residential might scale things back a bit. But ultimately it will fall to any new zoning and what gets pulled off at the OMB (if it still exists at that point).
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
A year late can be understandable given the scale. I'll also add that UPX was delivered on budget, although I'm sure if you ask @drum118 about that, he will be happy to point out some things are still not done.
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Nitpick. UPX was said to be roughly $450M within a larger project (GTS) that had a budget of $1.7B and which demonstrated significant scope reductions and went very much behind schedule. It still isn't complete today relative to its initial stated deliverables.

UPX was delivered in time for the Pan Am games, as promised. In all other respects, the hand was quicker than the eye.

- Paul
 
WislaHD said:
This has been discussed earlier in the thread.

Two stations, one at Mortimer, and the second at Gamble with the southern end of the station box reaching Cosburn can be adequate stop-distance.

Danforth --> Mortimer = 780m
Mortimer --> Gamble = 554m

Plus a Gamble station box would be one block south of the East York Community Centre, and 3 blocks from O'Connor (which shouldn't have a stop).
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I definitely like this spacing.

That whole strip along the East side of Pape could use redevelopment from Cosburn to Gamble. My fantasy for that strip would be mid-rise with retail at grade and station entrances with much of the corner (McDonalds lot) becoming a public square.
 
I can see most, if not all, those current commercial space which has parking spaces (including Walmart & The Home Depot) being redeveloped into high-rises with commercial on the first floors.

Gerrard Pape.jpg
 

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Flint said:
I definitely like this spacing.

That whole strip along the East side of Pape could use redevelopment from Cosburn to Gamble. My fantasy for that strip would be mid-rise with retail at grade and station entrances with much of the corner (McDonalds lot) becoming a public square.
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Yah. As we see with downtown, people don't mind walking indoors to/from stations.

If we redeveloped that McDonalds site, adding a PATH-like concourse level with station entrance on the south side (Cosburn) leading to the station entrance closer to the north side of the site (closer to Gamble), then most people would hardly even realize that Cosburn station is a little bit north of Cosburn.

Plan for good stop-distance for the purpose of good service, and good station-entrances for the purpose of good accessibility/connectivity.

Assuming 200m station boxes (will the DRL have station boxes that big?) We can even push the station box even further north so the southern edge of the station box is directly under Gamble Ave. We can have 3 entrances then, one in the north near Woodville Ave (just 1 block south of O'Connor), one at the center near Torrens Ave (East York Community Centre entrance), and one at the south near Gamble Ave with a prospective development of the McDonalds site giving us a public concourse level that connects the Gamble Station entrance with Cosburn Avenue.

And at Mortimer, the station box can sit to the south, in between Mortimer and Sammon Ave. That gives us roughly ~550m between each of Pape, Mortimer and Cosburn station boxes, while providing great accessibility to the entire stretch of Pape between Danforth and O'Connor.
 
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crs1026 said:
Nitpick. UPX was said to be roughly $450M within a larger project (GTS) that had a budget of $1.7B and which demonstrated significant scope reductions and went very much behind schedule. It still isn't complete today relative to its initial stated deliverables.

- Paul
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What remains undone that was in the GTS project as specced and funded?
 
TransitBart said:
What remains undone that was in the GTS project as specced and funded?
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  • A fourth track in many spots
  • A new tunnel for a fourth track at the 401
  • Widening of the Dufferin Street portal
  • The John Street pedestrian bridge
Those are the big ones. There were little station aspects (stairs/ramps, finishings) that were finished recently, but still not done for Pan-Am and opening of UPX.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
  • A fourth track in many spots
  • A new tunnel for a fourth track at the 401
  • Widening of the Dufferin Street portal
  • The John Street pedestrian bridge
Those are the big ones. There were little station aspects (stairs/ramps, finishings) that were finished recently, but still not done for Pan-Am and opening of UPX.
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- Weekend and evening service to Bramalea
- Construction of separate tracks for the Newmarket Sub (Barrie GO) between Bathurst St and Parkdale (Queen St)
- Connections to permit Bolton GO (the whole Bolton GO premise was announced, and then disappeared)

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
- Weekend and evening service to Bramalea
- Construction of separate tracks for the Newmarket Sub (Barrie GO) between Bathurst St and Parkdale (Queen St)
- Connections to permit Bolton GO (the whole Bolton GO premise was announced, and then disappeared)

- Paul
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The Bolton GO service was pushed off because of inadequate ridership (surprise).
 
Hold on, were any/all of those items actually funded though?

I've never found any indication that the 4th track, even though it was in the EA, was actually supposed to be built at the same time as the rest of the corridor. (In fairness, with the exception of the 401 underpass, I can't find any reference to it NOT supposed to have been built at the same time, either.) And the track for the Newmarket Sub was never on the table as to be built at the same time.

But there are certainly some outstanding items. Regardless of why, the fact that the John St pedestrian bridge and crossing still isn't open is a pretty glaring one, as is the lack of additional non-peak service.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Hold on, were any/all of those items actually funded though?

I've never found any indication that the 4th track, even though it was in the EA, was actually supposed to be built at the same time as the rest of the corridor. (In fairness, with the exception of the 401 underpass, I can't find any reference to it NOT supposed to have been built at the same time, either.) And the track for the Newmarket Sub was never on the table as to be built at the same time.

But there are certainly some outstanding items. Regardless of why, the fact that the John St pedestrian bridge and crossing still isn't open is a pretty glaring one, as is the lack of additional non-peak service.
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There's no doubt that the fine details are incredibly hard to confirm one way or the other. (Believe me, I have tried to find these). The GO documents do appear to cover some of its exposure starting around 2010, so the problem may have been political promises and waxing poetic rather than GO being given an envelope and then misspending it.

The big picture is, actual GTS/UPE spending together amounted to about three times what is credited to UPE. (The original documents set the ARL budget at only $300M, by the way - it expanded somewhere along the way). If UPE was $457M, simple math says that over $1B was spent on GO between Bramalea and Strachan. Do we see $1B worth of improved GO service? Nope.

We are way off topic for the DRL, but getting back to the starting comment - GTS demonstrates how the credibility of past projects' claims to be on time on budget is pretty weak.

- Paul
 
Second the motion.

I like that your Phase I goes further north than Danforth and further west than University.

I wonder whether the insertion/extraction points will be what determines the actual end points. As a matter of pragmatics, taking the north end all the way to the Don Valley would put the shaft somewhere that doesn't involve expropriation. Similarly, putting the shaft at Trinity Bellwoods Park would avoid a potentially costly expropriation along Queen.

We will kiss the 501 streetcar good bye (for a few years, anyways) once construction begins in earnest.....better be sure that King is a transit-priority by then, all the way from Dufferin to River.

- Paul
 
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