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TTC: Cherry Street reconstruction and streetcar trackage (City of Toronto/TTC, U/C)

Interesting: the TTC is proposing to run service between Cherry Loop and Dufferin Loop under a new route number: 514 Cherry.
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More info in the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/r/TTCpape
 
Linked from http://www.ttc.ca/TTC_Surveys/index.jsp (odd, I didn't see the link at the bottom of the image on my mobile.

Also odd that the 75 doesn't seem to extend to Queens Quay ... bad graphics? Presumably, they just modified the first map in the survey.

My comments:

This plan fails to connect Distillery District (Parliament/Mill) to the St. Lawrence Market.

It also fails to provide east/west transit along Front East to connect Union with the new developments there (Globe and Mail, Coca Cola, etc.) forcing the neighbourhood to deal with more double-parking private shuttle buses that they can't even ride on.

I can't fathom how the 172 as proposed would have enough frequency to provide service on Queens Quay, without providing way too much capacity on Commisioners and Carlaw/Pape. I also don't understand how it can provide a reliable frequent service along Queens Quay if it's going to get stuck on Carlaw/Pape.

Why not reinstate the 72, much as it was historically (call it the 72/172 if you must). And instead the 65 down Parliament and Queens Quay to Bay/Yonge. The 65 is a 10-minute network bus, and part of the overnight network - this fits Queens Quay better.

Meanwhile run the 121 along Front East instead of Esplanade, providing a more direct service to Union. Instead of looping it around Princess/Berkeley, keep it going down Front all the way to Bayview, and loop it around at River/Bayview. This would provide service into the Canary District - rather than the proposed 514 service, which fails to enter the new neighbourhood. (though why that 121 route isn't a streetcar I don't know ...)
 
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Megaton327 said:
Very interesting. Didn't think they'd do Cherry-Dufferin as a new route, definitely thought it'd be a branch of the 504. 172 running on Queen's Quay is great, the 6 bay is not providing enough service down there. And the 121 is a very pleasant surprise--nice to finally have some service on Front St.!
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I think having the "514" as a separate service is a recipe for disaster. The TTC will use it as an excuse to run it as limited service (ie: rush-hour only) without reliable service similar to how they ran the 508. I dont think it will be the regular route that some people think it will be.
 
Amare said:
I think having the "514" as a separate service is a recipe for disaster. The TTC will use it as an excuse to run it as limited service (ie: rush-hour only) without reliable service similar to how they ran the 508. I dont think it will be the regular route that some people think it will be.
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Not sure how a branch of 504 would be better. If the TTC is looking for an excuse to run a limited service on Cherry, they can as well do that with a branch.

Although, I'd like to reorganize the King St service as follows, if I could:
#504: Broadview Stn to Dufferin loop
#514: Cherry loop to Dundas West Stn
#508: Cherry loop to Long Branch

I would run all 3 lines as all-day routes, and shorten #501 Queen to Humber loop in the west in order to shift some of the #501 streetcars to #508.
 
nfitz said:
Meanwhile run the 121 along Front East instead of Esplanade, providing a more direct service to Union. Instead of looping it around Princess/Berkeley, keep it going down Front all the way to Bayview, and loop it around at River/Bayview. This would provide service into the Canary District - rather than the proposed 514 service, which fails to enter the new neighbourhood. (though why that 121 route isn't a streetcar I don't know ...)
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I thought that a streetcar route needs rails :)
 
Rainforest said:
I thought that a streetcar route needs rails :)
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I've commented before, that running tracks straight from Bathurst/Front to Bayview/Front seemed like a good idea - and then extending it west along the old Front Street alignment to Dufferin, and along the Waterfront West alignment to Queensway - as a better approach than the Bremner/Fort York alignment - but I thing that ship has sailed.

I really don't know how they came up with a transit scheme for the West Donlands that had no actual transit within the West Donlands.
 
Wonder why they left the Don River out of the map.
 
My main comment was concerning the direction that the 172 looped at Union. Going clockwise requires crossing to the east side of Bay. Going counter clockwise would allow buses to kneel where the 6 southbound stops adjacent to the northeast doors out of the Bay concourse, allowing a seamless connection to the Union TTC concourse and the PATH.
 
It seems to me like TTC want to kick away any notion of service on Mill until it can justify extending 121 to loop Mill-Tannery-Front-Bayview. As it is, Corktown Common which the Star keeps raving over is pretty hard to get to by transit without a significant hike.
 
dowlingm said:
It seems to me like TTC want to kick away any notion of service on Mill until it can justify extending 121 to loop Mill-Tannery-Front-Bayview. As it is, Corktown Common which the Star keeps raving over is pretty hard to get to by transit without a significant hike.
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350 meters/4 minute walk from the 501 stop at River to get to Corktown Commons. Yep....pretty hard to get to.

And I will have to walk 200 meters from the Cherry Street loop to the Distillery District to visit Labatt's (I mean Mill St Brewery). And THEN I will have to walk 1 WHOLE BLOCK to get to St Lawrence Market. That is if I'm too lazy to walk the 1.0 km.

If you are less than 5 minutes from a streetcar or subway there should be no complaints. Does everyone understand why people who don't live in the downtown core think they are underserved by the TTC?
 
muller877 said:
350 meters/4 minute walk from the 501 stop at River to get to Corktown Commons. Yep....pretty hard to get to.

And I will have to walk 200 meters from the Cherry Street loop to the Distillery District to visit Labatt's (I mean Mill St Brewery). And THEN I will have to walk 1 WHOLE BLOCK to get to St Lawrence Market. That is if I'm too lazy to walk the 1.0 km.

If you are less than 5 minutes from a streetcar or subway there should be no complaints. Does everyone understand why people who don't live in the downtown core think they are underserved by the TTC?
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You are really not very good at counting or estimating walking time. For example: From The Mill Street Brewery to St Lawrence Market is actually many blocks. (MSB to Parliament, to Berkeley, to Princess, to Lower Sherbourne, to Frederick, to George South, to Lower Jarvis and finally to Market.
 
DSC said:
You are really not very good at counting or estimating walking time. For example: From The Mill Street Brewery to St Lawrence Market is actually many blocks. (MSB to Parliament, to Berkeley, to Princess, to Lower Sherbourne, to Frederick, to George South, to Lower Jarvis and finally to Market.
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I think you may have misread. Mill St Brewery is 200 metres to the Cherry Street Loop - then presumably one takes the streetcar to Jarvis, and it's 1 whole block to St. Lawrence Market OR walk the 1 km.

Checking it out ... I get 1.1 km walk instead of 1 km. But close enough.

Personally, at Corktown Common to the 504 stop on River/King - that's pretty easy. About 300 metres. Wasn't a problem with a 3-year old - they walked much further IN the park.

Still seems a bit unnecessary for a regular commute though. I think there should have been transit service down Front or Mill.
 
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