News   Apr 24, 2024
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Taxis and ride-sharing in Toronto

I have never witnessed a politician in this city whose pockets were so deeply filled by an industry as this Karygiannis character's is by the taxi lobby. This guy is a piece of work.

Why hasn't someone opened an ethics inquiry into this guy?
 
I have never witnessed a politician in this city whose pockets were so deeply filled by an industry as this Karygiannis character's is by the taxi lobby. This guy is a piece of work.

Why hasn't someone opened an ethics inquiry into this guy?

Because the city doesn't want a public spectacle of the dirty dealings of city councilors. Hear no evil, see no evil.
 
Why hasn't someone opened an ethics inquiry into this guy?

Because the RoFo and Mammo episodes taught us that as it stands right now, our ethics process is pretty much useless? When the impotence of enforcement is there for all to see, all it does is encouragement of aberrant behaviour.

AoD
 

That's an excellent article. Its good to see the overvalued taxi plates get devalued. That's some major corruption, and both customers and drivers were getting screwed massively. I'm glad Uber came in and cut right through the corruption.

My only gripe with Uber is the Surge rates, which often get ridiculously high during peak hours. But I guess that's how Uber and its drivers make their money, with surge rates during peak hours.
 
Wow, that story is so sad.
I just had an amazing Uber experience yesterday. I was on a long-ish bike ride and almost at my furthest point from home when my chain malfunctioned biking up a steep hill...no matter what I did, I couldn't get my bike back to biking condition. Uber to the rescue. I had a driver within 5 minutes, who very happily put down the back seat, helped me gently put my back in the car, and even found something for me to wipe the chain grease off my hands. We then had a pleasant conversation for 20 minutes when he dropped me off at my door and helped me put my wheel back on my bike. All for $12!

Try finding a taxi with that level of service.
 
I had a nightmare trying to get a cab to Oakwood Collegiate last week.

There were no cabs to hail on St. Clair, so I called Beck. Apparently saying I was "standing on Oakwood Avenue, just south of St. Clair" was no good. I had to provide a specific address. I couldn't see any from where I was. Eventually they accepted that I was at Oakwood Collegiate, but then I had to identify a specific entrance. I said the "Oakwood Avenue entrance". This was not good enough. I had to select from what I imagine must have been options on a drop down box on the dispatcher's computer screen.

"Is it the main entrance?"

"I don't know. I've never been here before. It's the entrance on Oakwood."

"So... the side entrance?"

"I guess so. I don't know if there is another side entrance. I'm standing on Oakwood, just south of St. Clair, right at the school."

I was told it would be 5-10 minutes. 20 minutes later there was no taxi. So I pulled up my Uber app and I was on my way exactly 6 minutes later. I didn't want to have to pay extra, but if I had to do it over again, I would have used Uber from the start.
 
As a deaf individua;. I'm glad that the city isn't working too hard to ban them but figure out a way to properly regulate them so this sort of stuff is legal.

At least until Beck et-cetra......releases an app.

...tap-button-and-they-show (GPS-homing-to-you, while-watchcing-car-dot-approaching-on-map)
...pre-paid
...pre-routed
...guaranteed-to-show-up-"Service Level Agreement" (at least 90%+ SLA -- Uber appears to be >99%)
...allows me to conduct a whole taxi trip without saying a single word to the driver
...exit immediately after trip, no wallet needed

Because I'm deaf! So it's inconvenient to communicate to most taxi drivers (and dangerous for me to communicate while the taxi driver is driving -- the taxi driver has so much struggle to understand me, that they take their eyes off the road if I try to communicate while the taxi is in motion).

As a deaf guy, I have times, had a taxi driver ask me to exit the vehicle when they could not understand me, so I've had a habit of waving cash in front of their eyes, to make sure they keep me in the vehicle. (And I'm far better paid than THAT taxi driver kicking me out of his taxi -- being a app developer for iPhones and Androids -- IT industry salaries).

Then Toronto can go ahead and ban Uber, only IF: I can conduct a whole pre-paid pre-routed trip on a single GPS "button press" to hail the taxi. (taxi auto-homes to your location) so completely accurate to the point, where I don't even have to say a single word to the taxi driver from entry-to-exit, as a deaf individual. As a result, Uber is uber-friendly for deaf individuals.

But, until then, barring any other options, otherwise, then City of Toronto needs tolerate Uber until the taxi laws are fixed by city hall. It's like Despite the insurance I'll take the risk if I am going alone; it's still safer (on an aggregate basis) than a taxi for me.

Granted some taxi drivers are really nice (usually the ones that are riding the accessible wheelchair taxis -- BUT I'm not physically disabled -- so that makes no difference for me). Problem is, there are enough bad apples (to a deaf guy like me).

Some citizens of Toronto (including, of course, tiffer24 with that insulting post) claim they want to arrest Uber passengers (moi?).

What a folly that is -- and an equivalent of a bunch of four-letter word to deaf taxi users! Lest the city, police, or anybody tries to take me to court because I rode Uber as a passenger -- I will put a very aggressive defence in court if my decision to use Uber, as a passenger, is contested. I may actually force the taxi laws to be changed to provide apps that exactly match Uber features, because it is one of the few DEAF-friendly zero-speech zero-phonecall zero-note-writing ways to get a taxi.

There is an Accessibility Law, and I might SHOVE IT INTO THE TAXI INDUSTRY FACE -- if anybody (as tiffer24 advocates) try to arrest me for using a deaf-accessible ride that's the laws hasn't been yet updated to fix. I realize Uber has done some shady stuff (though lesser than taxi industry). I realize Uber may have sometimes refused guide dogs, but real taxis also refuse guide dogs too. Okay, fix the Toronto laws to force them to accept wheelchairs and guide dogs, it's not like the problem is exclusive to taxis or Uber or whatever. THE POINT IS: no deaf person that I know has ever been abandoned by Uber (as far as I know) which is a miracle.

Yes: I am a bit upset because there are several people in many places in Toronto who wants Uber customers to be arrested.

What stupidity! Why do several people want to arrest me just because I was a Uber passenger? It's not like I was a John or bought contraband. It's just a drive in a car, fer chrissakes! I keep reading about many other people, who say they want to arrest Uber passengers, etc, etc, that it's starting to piss me off....it almost make me wonder if I need to talk to a lawyer to do something pre-emptively!

We've got better things to focus on. Fix the laws, force the taxi companies to provide Uber-style apps, etc. Or at least focus on the DRL (Downtown Relief Line) or other priorities.
 
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We've got better things to focus on. Fix the laws, force the taxi companies to provide Uber-style apps, etc.
I completely disagree. Fix the laws that protects the taxi cartel and the continual market distortion that it causes. Updating legislation will enable Uber to operate legally and let you use the apps that they provide. After that, the free market can decide whether or not taxi companies start to adopt Uber-style apps. Our municipal government should not be regulating apps. That's ridiculous.
 
I wonder how many people attending the Pan Am and Parapan Am Games complained about the taxi service (i.e. cost or refusing short distance trips)?
 
I completely disagree. Fix the laws that protects the taxi cartel and the continual market distortion that it causes. Updating legislation will enable Uber to operate legally and let you use the apps that they provide. After that, the free market can decide whether or not taxi companies start to adopt Uber-style apps. Our municipal government should not be regulating apps. That's ridiculous.
I'm perfectly fine with a legal Toronto Uber too, just make sure we don't a Uber-like option.

Whatever gets it done -- just legalize Uber and/or force taxi companies to become more Uber-like in deaf-friendly one-button zero-talk-needed "cab" rides. (near-guaranteed ride, GPS-homing-to-you, pre-paid, pre-routed, exit-immediately-at-end). Whatever the city does -- even legal Uber -- I'm fine with it, as long as the deaf does not lose a massive improvement in their transportation options.

Just don't remove anything of that sort of convenience from the deaf audience, please. Then I'm totally happy with your proposal. Whatever the city is willing to do.
In that case, just throw away my post, and go with your proposal.

I even implied in my post as such. If you re-read, you will notice I didn't say definitely ban Uber (it was conditional, on alternative Uber-like apps existing) ...just don't end up with a situation where we end up with zero Uber-like deaf-friendly-hail apps -- (i.e. a banned Uber, and no Uber-like Beck, and no Uber-like alternates, etc). If you re-read my post, that's also exactly the point I am making.

My "agreement" Venn diagram completely overlaps your scenario, and we can just go with "Legal Uber" and call it a day. :) If the City pulls that off. Done deal.
 
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It may be relevant to this discussion - the Region of Waterloo has released a draft taxi by-law for public and stakeholder consideration. It currently would require essentially the same things for taxis and "auxiliary taxis" in terms of vehicle and driver requirements, but with no cap on the number of "auxiliary taxi" licenses - which can do most everything except street hails.
 
It may be relevant to this discussion - the Region of Waterloo has released a draft taxi by-law for public and stakeholder consideration. It currently would require essentially the same things for taxis and "auxiliary taxis" in terms of vehicle and driver requirements, but with no cap on the number of "auxiliary taxi" licenses - which can do most everything except street hails.
Excellent.

Finally -- sensible sounding bylaw from first impression (with only minor adjustment needed). This includes making Uber drivers to get a mandatory in-car camera (just get a cheap $50 dashcam and an all-day-recording 32GB MicroSD card) and to make Uber drivers to always show proof of purchased commercial insurance shown if police stops a Uber, or passenger asks.

Other than that, no silly stuff like plates/medallions, fleet limits, fare meters, etc
(phones are fare meters instead, and you can refuse the price, and remember: some ridehails including Uber already allows one-button cancellation if you don't like the pricing, driver, or car) -- good. Taxi drivers still keep many bones thrown at them -- Uber drivers are banned from doing streetside hailing or taxi drivers. Incidentally, this would force companies like Uber to quickly help these drivers easily purchase local commercial driving insurance (part-time and full-time). Other than this, it will still be fairly easy for a very good qualified driver with a flawless driving record -- still fine with me, risk-wise.

-- Commercial insurance companies now can provide proper coverage more easily --
In addition, this forms the necessary climate for insurance companies to assess risk of app-hail duty (e.g. Uber), and offer lower rates for good drivers who only do occasional part-time app-hail duty (e.g. Uber). Insurance companies can look at Uber log to charge a variable rate based on amount of Uber airtime -- so a part-time Uber driver doing it as a 2nd job -- shall pay a rate much more proportionate to the amount of driving. (Like taxi-drivers that own their plate/cab but only run it part-time -- some insurance companies in some jurisdictions already make that provision).

-- This is independent of any bad 'Uber corporate' tactics; a legitimate concern --
This isn't about Uber or their business tactics, but city law books must incorporate the push button app-hail economy (bikeshare, carshare, Uber, Lyft, future private or public-transit clones of 1970s GO Transit DIAL-A-BUS, and eventually hailable self-driving cars in our kid's lifetime, etc).

-- Force taxi companies to permit their drivers to enrol in third party taxi hail apps --
I do suggest an amendment that taxi companies should be forced to let taxi drivers to choose to be a member of third party taxi app hailing (e.g. Hailo, UberTaxi, etc). It is important to note that remember UberTaxi is not UberX and this does not give taxi drivers auxilary rights. Taxi drivers enrolled in UberTaxi would be subject to full taxi requirements, except I could hail as a deafie easily. Yes, it means I have to pay a hailing fee to Uber for UberTaxi, but the taxi company and taxi driver gets the full original faremeter fare, where they could otherwise be turned away because I consciously instead chose to take the insurance risk with UberX. This makes them more accessible and deaf-friendly, as many including deaf people like myself -- would like the "no-talk no-write zero-speech enter-and-exit cab ride" experience with all rides, taxi or auxilary taxi.

-- Deaf accessibility is absolutely critical. AB-SEEE-OL-UTE-LEEY. --
Often, many taxi drivers do not require their taxi drivers to be able to effectively communicate with deaf and speech-impaired people of all kinds (some can speak, some can't, some can't write either, etc). App hailing allow the "pre-paid pre-routed zero-driver-communication no-payment-fiddling exit-immediate-at-end" experience for deafies like me and others. In theory, I could sue to make this illegal under deaf accessibility law (AODA), as this is a very simple way to make all taxis fully compliant with our existing AODA law, from a deafie and speech-impaired perspective.

-- Taxi drivers are commonly in violation of AODA in regards to deaf people. --
I have a lawyer friend who has pointed a very clear low-lying apple in the AODA legislation, that during a lawsuit, can suddenly force taxi companies to permit their drivers to enrol in third-party app-hailing (ones that fit the taxi law like UberTaxi, not the auxilary taxi law like UberX -- two different things). However, I don't feel like spending the time nor money on any lawsuits because I fortunately see Uber legalizing. You know, I also know a deaf guy who is also dyslexic, so he's got both speech & written difficulties, making taxi communications even harder than for me! He does not have the resources to do a lawsuit, even if I feel like helping him out. Either way The point is -- Taxi companies should not fire taxi drivers who enrol in Hailo or UberTaxi, full stop (again, UberTaxi is different from UberX) -- to enable full taxi accessibility to deafies like me. Able-bodied deaf / communication-impaired people are a different AODA law beast than wheelchairs that has been overlooked by many city councillors and taxi drivers. This enables the zero-driver-communication taxi ride, which is not otherwise possible except when using app hailing.

-- Compromise law suggestion for making taxis AODA-compliant for deaf people --
A possible compromise law for Taxi companies for deaf accessibility could be roughly similiar to this mandatory suggestion:
(A) Either must provide a hailing app that permits passengers to complete their ride with zero driver communications for the entire ride. This complies with the AODA for the able-bodied who are deaf, dyslexic, speech impaired, or otherwise communications impaired;
***or***
(B) Must fully permit their taxi drivers subscribe to third-party taxi app hailing services that complies with AODA legislation pertaining to otherwise able bodied people who are deaf, dyslexic, speech impaired, or otherwise communications impaired. Example apps include UberTaxi or Hailo. Said taxi drivers shall not be fired for subscribing to third party taxi hailing (e.g. UberTaxi or Hailo) as long as they are not subscribing to auxilary taxi-hailing apps (e.g. UberX).

-- Plates affecting babies (good taxi drivers) with the bathwater (bad taxi drivers) --
For cities with overpriced taxi plate/medallion systems, a phased transition might be necessary needed, as among the bad taxi drivers, are nice ones too, that may be thrown out of work suddenly as babies (good taxi drivers) with the bathwater (of bad taxi drivers). It's a messy transition, but we have to do it now before we are able to hail self-driving cars, either our own, or from a carshared/rented/rideshared/hailable fleet (after a few generational cycles of very secure and safe Category 4 automated car improvements -- to the point that they're safety trustworthy empty in a snowstorm on a dodgy street.).

-- App hailing is a convenience revolution for the deaf who missed their last bus --
As a deaf guy who has been kicked out of taxis for being communications-impaired, UberX is a revolution that makes the amazing invention of the "zero-driver-communications ride" fully possible. No deaf people has ever been kicked out of a UberX vehicle for being communications-impaired as the Uber driver already has 100% of all the information necessary (pre-routed, pre-paid, etc), even before heading to the pickup location. Ironically, as a computer programmer in the booming mobile app developer industry, I earn far more than the average taxi driver. Unusually, I could otherwise be a good poster boy for launching an AODA lawsuit against taxi companies. But it's not necessary considering Waterloo & the open-mindedness of Tory. Deaf people can't always call taxi companies. Deaf people can't always hail taxi streetside successfully. There are often no good taxi options for the deaf soured by bad experiences. Hailo/UberTaxi/UberX/etc fixed that. It should now be enshrined in law.

-- The Jacquard Loom Moment & Taxi Protests --
App-hailed rides is the start of a taxi-disruptive transition. Unfortunately, driverless cars would later complete this disruptive transition. It would almost certainly make the majority of taxi driver positions redundant within a few decades. We need to prevent the Jacquard Loom textile automation moment. Already, today, we have major taxi protests. 200 years ago textile workers were thrown out of employment from the early automatic looms. Today we have Paris taxi protests, with violence and arson, from the sudden emergence of Uber. To prevent social tensions like arson burning in Paris by very angry taxi drivers, a transition period is socially necessary (e.g. half a generation? a generation?). This allows taxi plates/licenses to slowly devalue to a more natural equilibrium without social catastrophes occuring.

___

Big Kudos to Waterloo. Thank you.

(Coincidentially, I'm a University of Waterloo alumni -- though got hired quickly into the dot-com boom a bit early)

The proposed Waterloo bylaw seems to be a good compromise that gives taxis some rights and ridehail vehicles other rights -- while forcing non-onerous changes to drivers who sign up to earn money on ridehail (e.g. Uber drivers). It also throttles the social changes (e.g. taxi drivers doing arson in Paris) while continuing to allow taxis and Uber to operate -- over a transitional period -- until the era of hailable self-driving cars within our kid's lifetimes.

Toronto need to follow suit. Ditto for other municipalities.
 
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