Toronto Yorkdale Shopping Centre | ?m | ?s | Oxford Properties | MMC Architecture

[zang]

Some have speculated that the death of the mall is due to market oversaturation, which makes sense with the recent death of many freestanding big boxes, too. We can only buy so much stuff, and with the middle class shrinking, there's less expendable income and thus less drive for shopping in general.

It seems that the pattern of death goes outer suburban malls, then inner suburban malls, then isolated/small town malls. I'm not entirely sure how Cadillac Fairview is able to fight the current, but somehow they're doing it.

Urban malls in general seem relatively safe for now. Part of that's likely attributable to the shift in urban growth, but might also be because urban areas are more likely to have the support of tourism. We'll see if urban malls will still remain safe as retailers are rethinking urban strategies and smaller stores. Ironically, with Mississauga turning an eye towards urbanism, it would appear Square One is poised to benefit most as more and more towers spring up around it.

 

[Edward Skira]

Some have speculated that the death of the mall is due to market oversaturation, which makes sense with the recent death of many freestanding big boxes, too. We can only buy so much stuff, and with the middle class shrinking, there's less expendable income and thus less drive for shopping in general.

It seems that the pattern of death goes outer suburban malls, then inner suburban malls, then isolated/small town malls. I'm not entirely sure how Cadillac Fairview is able to fight the current, but somehow they're doing it.

Urban malls in general seem relatively safe for now. Part of that's likely attributable to the shift in urban growth, but might also be because urban areas are more likely to have the support of tourism. We'll see if urban malls will still remain safe as retailers are rethinking urban strategies and smaller stores. Ironically, with Mississauga turning an eye towards urbanism, it would appear Square One is poised to benefit most as more and more towers spring up around it.

Don't discount the impact of online. People are still buying plenty but are bypassing the direct retail experience.

 

[PinkLucy]

At the condo where I live, the deliveries from online shopping during the past holiday season were astounding, and I've noticed an overall increase in packages being delivered. Online shopping is having a huge impact on retail.

 

[Tuscani01]

From our own research, online shopping isn't something that is worth going after, as most Canadians still go to retail stores at some point during their decision making process. The online market in Canada is tiny compared to that of the USA. One of the things we have noticed is that Canada's market is more aligned with Europe, where the pay online and pickup in store model is more popular with consumers and retailers than having product shipped to the consumer directly. It's why Canadian Tire's showroom model has been so successful, and why the new Edmonton store has beat out all sales forecasts. People here still want to see the product before they buy.

It's something that more Canadian retailers are starting to realize, and capitalize on. You'll be seeing much more focus on pay and pick up models than online over the next few years here. The retailers that have figured this out and are turning their in store experience into something more like a show room/destination are the ones who are succeeding right now, and will continue to do so for the next few years.

 

[zang]

From our own research, online shopping isn't something that is worth going after, as most Canadians still go to retail stores at some point during their decision making process. The online market in Canada is tiny compared to that of the USA. One of the things we have noticed is that Canada's market is more aligned with Europe, where the pay online and pickup in store model is more popular with consumers and retailers than having product shipped to the consumer directly. It's why Canadian Tire's showroom model has been so successful, and why the new Edmonton store has beat out all sales forecasts. People here still want to see the product before they buy.

It's something that more Canadian retailers are starting to realize, and capitalize on. You'll be seeing much more focus on pay and pick up models than online over the next few years here. The retailers that have figured this out and are turning their in store experience into something more like a show room/destination are the ones who are succeeding right now, and will continue to do so for the next few years.

You got to that before I did. But yes, the US is the exception when it comes to online sales success, and not the rule. The market there has always been more concerned with quantity and lowest price, rather than quality (they are the kings of disposable products), and so they're more likely to buy-without-try.

 

[Tuscani01]

Correct. One just needs to look at the move to bricks and mortar from online to see the popularity of it in Canada. Some businesses that were strictly online have now moved into physical retail locations since they could not reach the markets they were targeting. Amazon is rumoured to be looking into bricks and mortar, ClearlyContacts.ca has opened retail locations in Canada, Wal Mart Canada has eliminated free shipping, Loblaws is moving to the pay & pickup model, etc.

The online strategy that is working in the US for these companies didn't produce the same results here in Canada so everyone is now re-evaluating their focus on it. A strong digital presence simply isn't producing the sales that many were expecting.

The Canadian market is so interesting to study since it shares so many similarities with the US market, and is often compared to the US, however, when you get down into the finer details you can find many more similarities with Europe than with the US. Kind of makes things a bit more fun and interesting.

 

[sixrings]

First of all there are really only a handful of malls doing really well. The rest are dying in my opinion. Anyways the reason i think the luxury malls still do well is because of the weather in Canada. As nice as bloor street is when it's -20 I'd rather be shopping indoors. Our weather is either extreme cold or hot. Both make being inside desirable. Plus going to the mall with good restaurants is more of a outing which is something online can't produce. Shopping becomes a past time or hobby. I'd rather go to the mall than sit in front of a tv. But I'd rather play sports than the mall or tv.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

First of all there are really only a handful of malls doing really well. The rest are dying in my opinion. Anyways the reason i think the luxury malls still do well is because of the weather in Canada. As nice as bloor street is when it's -20 I'd rather be shopping indoors. Our weather is either extreme cold or hot. Both make being inside desirable. Plus going to the mall with good restaurants is more of a outing which is something online can't produce. Shopping becomes a past time or hobby. I'd rather go to the mall than sit in front of a tv. But I'd rather play sports than the mall or tv.

I would add that relatively few malls in the GTA have "destination restaurants", which is very much a US thing.

AoD

 

[ShonTron]

Bramalea City Centre is doing just fine (despite the loss of Target and still stuck with a Sears) while Shoppers World Brampton is wasting away again after a half-hearted renovation around 2000 that added new, or expanded existing, big-box retailers. The Bay store was closed, later demolished with a Bad Boy and Chinese buffet restaurant in its place; Wal-Mart built a new store at Steeles and Kennedy so I can't see the Kmart-Zellers-Target store being leased anytime soon.

 

[interchange42]

Reading about the Nordstrom restaurants I'm thinking "good luck to them" as I never consider malls when I'm thinking about dining out, but maybe enough other people do.

As a kid though, the family occasionally went to the restaurant at Simpsons at Sherway Gardens as the ceiling of the garden court that it overlooked had wild lighting and seriously funky supergraphics painted on it. My sister and I probably just consumed nondescript burgers and cardboard fries for the meals…

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[interchange42]

Bramalea City Centre is doing just fine (despite the loss of Target and still stuck with a Sears) while Shoppers World Brampton is wasting away again after a half-hearted renovation around 2000 that added new, or expanded existing, big-box retailers. The Bay store was closed, later demolished with a Bad Boy and Chinese buffet restaurant in its place; Wal-Mart built a new store at Steeles and Kennedy so I can't see the Kmart-Zellers-Target store being leased anytime soon.

I can see half of Shoppers World becoming residential towers in the future, and if the developer is bright, they'll be retirement residential towers with a built-in mall to walk in winter time.

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[PinkLucy]

Plus going to the mall with good restaurants is more of a outing which is something online can't produce

I hate malls and shopping in general. I love online.

People tend to hang out with like people, and so many people I know have completely embraced online shopping, particularly at holiday time, except for fresh things like food. I just don't know many people who mall shop any more.

Personally, I won't pay exorbitant shipping fees, so I choose retailers that don't charge them or buy at a price point that doesn't require them. I also only choose retailers with easy return policies. I do see why the pick n pay approach is working -- it combines the best of both worlds and offers convenience.

I never shop at Wal-Mart, I buy ebooks, and I seldom need anything from Canadian Tire (sorry Tuscani) so online suits my needs well. I love my Apple products, but I buy them online because the stores drive me nuts.

 

[Tuscani01]

I seldom need anything from Canadian Tire (sorry Tuscani) so online suits my needs well.

It's ok. We're working on a way to convert you!

 

[Skeezix]

Reading about the Nordstrom restaurants I'm thinking "good luck to them" as I never consider malls when I'm thinking about dining out, but maybe enough other people do.

I was in Ottawa in May and happened to be in Rideau Centre when I bumped into a friend. We went into the Nordstrom restaurant about 2 pm and it was very busy. Just an anecdote, but I suspect they'll do well.

 

[Skeezix]

From our own research, online shopping isn't something that is worth going after, as most Canadians still go to retail stores at some point during their decision making process.

Yeah, but using Canadian Tire as an example, for mostof the things that I would go to Canadian Tire to buy it would never occur to me to buy them online. First, Canadian Tire always has a store nearby (I live a block or so from the CT Express on the Danforth, and usually find that when I am in the car I am undoubtedly passing by at least one of the Leaside, Yonge, Main/Danforth or Lake Shore stores). But, more importantly, the type of product is usually something I want right away. Whether it's bonemeal for the garden or oil for the cedar chairs on the porch. And I'm not sure that cans of paint ship all that well.

But for different products, or for something that is not as conveniently located (e.g. do I really want to go to Yorkdale on the weekend?), I order online all the time. Click and collect is great for some products (groceries primarily), but I wouldn't go to the trouble for other products. It's all a cost/benefit/convenience analysis -- where can I get it at an actual store? Hard to find? How much of a drive? What's the product? Can I do better online or at a store? Do I have time/energy this week to go to the store? etc. The analysis for something I might get at CT would likely differ from the analysis for something I'd get from a different chain.

But totally agree that even online retailers can benefit from a bricks and mortar presence.

I suspect demographics play a role in this. My younger colleagues make a lot of their purchases online (lots of housewares and clothing). Consistent with what PinkLucy was saying about her condo bldg, given that the residents of many condos often (but not always) tend to skew younger.