Toronto Yonge Sheppard Centre Renovations and Expansion | 123.13m | 35s | RioCan | BDP Quadrangle

[Skeezix]

Especially since it wasn't his fault, except insofar that Council as a whole made bad decisions.

 

[11th]

Just curious -- what is not available around here (grocery-wise) that someone absolutely must drive elsewhere to get it?

That's something difficult to figure out. Asian friends would go to T&T to do their groceries even though they live within 2 km of North York Centre. I think it has to do with selections. The mainstream items (milk, pasta, bread) they get from the mainstream grocers.
There's a reason why a T&T can be crowded with customers at 10pm, but the Loblaws at Empress Walk is near dead at the same time.

 

[pipolchap]

Indeed. We will do anything to avoid driving somewhere. I not only value my time and convenience, but also the costs of gas, wear and tear, and the frustration/horror show that is driving in Toronto/GTA. Our goal is to eventually get rid of the car and use car sharing and transit. Someday.

In the beginning, my wife and I had always lived in the suburbs and had multiple cars. When we bought our first house in the area, we decided on one car since I was the only one driving to work (the wife took the subway downtown). As traffic grew, I quit driving and started cycling to work, even in the winter. One of the best decisions in my life!

It soon became apparent that the car wasn't being used. Although I dutifully paid its annual license, drive clean, and insurance and changed the oil, it was just sitting in the driveway. When I started seeing structural rust, I decided she needed to go. We've now weaned away from our car and are now on carshare and weekend rentals (we're still walking, cycling, and on TTC). I'm loving the new cars with bluetooth, backup cameras and heated seats!

Our friends and families thought we were crazy, "What about the kids? How can you get them to programs? Where do you get the time?" Most programs were nearby anyway. But for other things, I noticed we now have to manage our time better, which I find to be infinitely less stressful than driving. Hope this helps in your goal, Ed!

I'm truly looking forward to the renewed Sheppard Centre. I'll look forward to having another grocery store at Sheppard (Whole Foods isn't my scene) although I'm not too familiar with Longos' prices and selection.

Longos' prices and selection are on par with Loblaws and Metro. The closest one you can check out is at York Mills and Leslie. They also have a smaller Market store format downtown (comparable to Rabba?).

It's a textbook example of a municipality taking a good idea and mismanaging it with terrible results.

I didn't know the extent of Filion's involvement, my mistake. Hoping this mismanagement isn't repeated in the planned market at NYCC.

There's a reason why a T&T can be crowded with customers at 10pm, but the Loblaws at Empress Walk is near dead at the same time.

I think peak times vary in an urban vs suburban setting. I think in a more urban setting, like Empress, people don't drive as much and their busy period is usually after work and before dinner . Out in the burbs, like T&T land, people tend to wait after rush hour to do their shopping and/or stock up for the week. Also, I'm guessing many of their customers with weak English skills might not have regular 9-5 shifts, or people running their own business can only shop in the late evenings.

This reminds me, I used to shop weekly and find forgotten items in the fridge that go bad. Now that I'm shopping every other day, I'm wasting food less. Shopping locally may be more pricey, but it even out with less waste!

 

[NorthYorkEd]

I live on the Yonge "strip" and don't own a car but rather use a car sharing service for the odd time that I do need to drive somewhere off the TTC grid.

We've now weaned away from our car and are now on carshare and weekend rentals (we're still walking, cycling, and on TTC). I'm loving the new cars with bluetooth, backup cameras and heated seats!

Not to derail this thread too much, but I'm glad to hear that car-sharing is working out for others in the area. I actually signed up for the one that starts with "Z", mostly due to the availability of their vehicles around here. Going to try and see how it goes.

What I do love about owning a car is the freedom. No clock-watching, no dealing with inconsiderate people who don't return the vehicle on time (when you're waiting for it) or leave it dirty. These have been the main sticking points, as well as the convenience of having your car in the condo parking garage, clean and dry.

But what I hate is the cost of insurance, licensing, upkeep, and at 5 years old, the hundreds of dollars in repairs and maintenance coming my way. Yikes.

My other worry is that as soon as we get rid of the car, I'll lose my cushy home-based job (wife takes TTC) and end up getting a job where I need a vehicle.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

The largest ethnic demographic in NorthYorkCentre are Korean, Persian and Chinese,.... where do they shop for their "ethnic" grocery?

Loblaws, usually, in the aisle beside the beer & wine.

So you think ethnic grocery to just an aisle full of various shades of sweet&sour sauce and instant ramen noodle,....

Sadly when a generic supermarket increase their offering of ethnic food to fit their local demographic it's usually only the Chop-Suey type of dry-food instant noodle, bottled sauces, etc,.. type of products - which are in effect fake "ethnic" food for non-ethnic folks,.... and no doubt that's what you'll also find at the future Longos at YongeSheppardCentre - contributing little to the local ethnic community.

Just curious -- what is not available around here (grocery-wise) that someone absolutely must drive elsewhere to get it?

NorthYorkEd, you need to get out of the area more often,.... I recall you like Asian women, so just tell your wife you need to do some ethnic grocery shopping "research",... go to an Asian supermarket and look at all the wonderful selection - NorthYorkEd, I'm talking about the grocery items! Whenever you're in these areas: there's a Korean Galleria supermarket on Yonge just north of Steeles but better one at DonMills and YorkMills. Also a Chinese T&T at generic PromenadeMall but better one at Steeles and Warden. The selection, quality, variety of products and ready-made food items are amazing,... then go to the checkout line and look at what people are actually buying - you can't buy most of this stuff at any of the generic supermarket in NorthYorkCentre, not even the Korean H-Marts. At our local NorthYorkCentre supermarkets, it's usually a lone shopper buying one or two bags of grocery as a chore to pick-up something on the way home; thus, guess how much of a hassle the new YongeSheppardCentre Longos will be too,.... At most of these suburban ethnic stores it's usually a couple, a family or group of friends buying loads of grocery!,... it's practically a fun social event!,... this is especially true at the Steeles and Warden T&T.

Imagine what you would find in a supermarket in HongKong, Shanghai, Seoul, Tokyo,.... a lot of these mainstream popular items from Asia are shipped over - basically only the best from Asia - the best snacks, dry food products, drinks, noodles, rice, magazines, appliances, houseware items, etc,... from HongKong, Taiwan, China, Japan, SouthKorea,... only the best of Asia,.... and they also carry many of the mainstream Canadian local brands for regular generic grocery items,... you'll see non-Asian shopping there too,... thus they're not really "ethno-specific silos",.... some of the ethnic fruits and vegetables are from overseas only if they can't source it closer but lots from USA or even local greenhouses. Do check out the T&T at Steeles&Warden, they say never do grocery shopping when you're hungry - no problem - first grab some ready made dim-sum and bubble tea and eat it in their little food court area,.... look at all the selections,.... fresh T&T on-site bakery (not like that crappy T&T warehouse made bakery items Loblaws get - big difference in quality),... grab some of the hot ready-made food items (it's authentic Chinese food - no Chop-Suey here!). Asian diet are heavy on fresh vegetables and fresh seafood so check out those departments,... look at all the exotic Asian fruits and vegetables - fresh durian and all large variety of Asian apples & pears,..... you can't find this stuff in NorthYorkCentre - those Korean H-Marts mini-marts doesn't even come close. NorthYorkEd, you're from the East Coast and I'll bet you never seen such as huge selection of fresh/live seafood items. Where do you get live seafood in NorthYorkCentre?,... the Loblaws, WholeFoodsMarket and Metro might have a small fish tank of lobsters,... but everything else is iced or frozen and been dead for months already,... their seafood counter help likely never even cleaned a fish before. NorthYorkEd, go to the Steeles&Warden T&T,... and I'll bet you'll be going back there again and again! And you'll be wondering why NorthYorkCentre doesn't have anything like this,....

Price-wise T&T is a Loblaws store so the price are moderate for great selection and better quality items,... if you want a cheap Asian supermarket there's the cheap and dirty crammed hole in the walls you find in downtown Chinatown or those Vietnamese or Filipino grocery stores west of NorthYorkCentre. In Scarborough and 905, a lot of Chinese supermarkets are huge - some of them even taken over spaces from former Rona big box stores. And usually at least half of the wall space areas are packed with fully staffed food/market stations for bakery, ready-made food, dim-sum, sushi, bubble-tea, seafood, etc,...

How is it possible that Chinese, by far the largest visible minority group in Ward 23 and NorthYorkCentre - double that of Korean and Persian, still have to travel half-way across town to do their ethnic grocery shopping??? RioCan's (owner-mangement of YongeSheppardCentre & EmpressWalk) policy favouring their mainstream generic brand name stores certainly doesn't help,....

A T&T supermarket can set up in the middle of no-where and it'll thrive,... proof - the T&T on Cherry Street between Commissioner and Polson Street in the industrial PortLands area a kilometre away from the closest residential area and it still thrives.

The question is, can a RioCan generic mall set up in the middle of an area with high ethnic demographic and thrive? This area has already seen generic NorthYorkCityCentre mall and MadisonCentre mall bomb,..... the lower concourse level of NorthYorkCityCentre mall is just a empty shell with only a few stores near the TTC entrance,... the MadisonCentre mall movie theatre space been converted to restaurant and now office space,.... lower concourse level is now mainly office, theatre and gym space,.... Even generic EmpressWalk Mall has seen a constant revolving door of retail tenants over the years, it seems only the Loblaws, Wendy's and LCBO remains as original tenants.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

BTW,.... As I already stated, the new Longos at YongeSheppardCentre will only survive by stealing customers away from other generic supermarkets in the area,... since the area's demographic shows that generic market is really a lot smaller than most folks think,.... longer term, I predict the Longos would never thrive but just barely survive (right now, Longos head-office should be considering walking away),... HullmarkCentre's WholeFoodsMarket will be gone (likely sometimes between 2019 to 2024).

On what basis?

Based on the area's increasing ethnic demographic data,....


The WholeFoodsMarket at HullmarkCentre is all smokes and mirror! From Yonge frontage it looks busy only because their Cafe at the front is busy or at least have people hanging out there.

But the WholeFoodsMarket Supermarket component is deserted,... the WholeFoodsMarket supermarket is just an over-glorified, over-hyped and over-priced Mini-Mart,... any of the area's mini-mart like the Rabba (@Avondale), each of the Korean H-Marts (@ Yonge&ChurchAve), 24-Hour H-Mart (@ Yonge&OliveAve) and M2M (@ Yonge&Greenfield) likely out-performs this massive WholeFoodsMarket in terms of number of customers serviced per day and average sales transaction amount per purchase. These little mini-marts are only a fraction of the size of the WholeFoodsMarket and are located in less desireable locations,... but yet, they're likely out-performing WholeFoodsMarket supermarket in terms of number of customer serviced and average sales amount per transaction,.... and you're shocked that I'm predicting WholeFoodsMarket will be gone!

I've dealt with WholeFoodsMarket store management on various community issues, and they're very protective and territorial - they wanted the City to protect their territory from the EmeraldPark Metro (never anything to worry about) and the YongeSheppardCentre Longos opening in the area. Huh???,... that's not what their property tax is paid for,.....

The new YongeSheppardCentre Longos store would be wise to format heavily on Cafe & Ready-Made-Food and lighter on core Grocery section as they've done with their more Urban Longos downtown at BrookfieldPlace, Dundas&Bay, Bloor&Yonge, etc,... VS their traditionally more suburban heavy Grocery format. Basically just set up a small mini-mart and convert everything else into a giant Cafe/Food-Court/Ready-Made-Food area which is what WholeFoodsMarket should have done! Why? Because generic grocery market is a limited and dying market in NorthYorkCentre! That's why the Metro refuse to open a money losing store at EmeraldPark,.... that's why WholeFoodsMarket try to change their format by expanding their Cafe and Ready-Made-Food areas and made their Grocery section smaller - their Cafe area is now jammed with so many more tables and chairs that emergency exits and washrooms are starting to get blocked.


Let's look at the StatisticsCanada Census and HomeSurvey data for this Ward23 that includes NorthYorkCentre:
1996 Population: 52,725
2001 Population: 61,800 http://www1.toronto.ca/city_of_toronto/city_planning/wards/files/pdf/wardprofiles_23.pdf
2006 Population: 79,520 http://www1.toronto.ca/city_of_toronto/city_planning/wards/files/pdf/ward23_2006profiles.pdf
2011 Population: 88,435 http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/City Planning/Wards/Files/pdf/W/Ward 23 Profile 2011.pdf
http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/City Planning/Wards/Files/pdf/W/Ward 23 NHS Profile 2011.pdf
2016 Population: over 100,000

Thus, in the last 20 years the population of Ward 23 Willowdale have doubled due to over 60 new residential condo towers opening in NorthYorkCentreSecondaryPlan area (Yonge corridor between DorisAve and BeecroftRoad from 401 to FinchHydroCorridor),.... and since the number of supermarkets in the NorthYorkCentre area has remain the same, you would expect their customers sales number to at least double as well!!!,... actually more than double since the local population has increased many folds due to all the new high-density developments within walking distance! But this did NOT happen! Why?

The number of generic supermarkets in NorthYorkCentre remain constant at 3 but shifted more from relying on driving customer to walk-in customers,.... yet, over the last 20 years customer volume at each location has remain the same or decreased,...... there's no BigBox Costco or Walmart opened in the immediate area,....

EmpressWalk Loblaws is the area's most popular supermarket - it opened in the late 1990's (replacing another area Loblaws at SpringFieldAve closed for development) but its customers numbers has basically remain constant while the population in NorthYorkCentre exploded! Likewise the Church&Doris Metro customer volume is similar to the customer level from the former Dominion at that old NorthTownPlaza site - all while the local population within walking distance has exploded!

The old Metro-Dominion-Miracle at WillowdalePlaza at southeast corner of Yonge&Sheppard (now HullmarkCentre) used to be quite popular until about the mid 1990's - the office market already tanked and now residential condos were starting to come online,... then huge amount of residential condo development (9 towers and townhouses) in Avondale area (former Maclean-Hunter land) which completed in early 2000's, Minto Spring, Menkes Cosmos,... these are all a stone throw from the old Metro. And further north there's ConservatoryGroup's Pearl, Platinums and Menkes Ultima's 5 condos towers,... but yet, with all these new residential condos opening up and this area local population exploding the most all around the old Metro,... the customer base at the old Metro was decreasing!!! It basically went from today's EmpressWalk Loblaws customer level in the early 1990s to today's WholeFoodsMarket supermarket only (not Cafe) customer level - that's a huge drop! Why???


Why is the market for generic supermarket limited and dying in NorthYorkCentre??? Drum roll please,.... its mainly due to the area's changing ethnic demographic data,.... and a few other points too,...

Now focus on these data again,... specifically the ethnocultural data of ethnic origin and visible minority data,... while the area population was increasing, the visible minority especially the Korean, Perian and Chinese population was increasing at a significantly higher rate and continues to do so - they're the ethnic groups primarily moving into all the residential condos being added into the area,.... they're the ones driving the increase in population,... and they're the ones that prefer to shop at their ethnic supermarkets (usually outside the area) VS the area's generic supermarkets.
1996 Population: 52,725
2001 Population: 61,800 http://www1.toronto.ca/city_of_toronto/city_planning/wards/files/pdf/wardprofiles_23.pdf
2006 Population: 79,520 http://www1.toronto.ca/city_of_toronto/city_planning/wards/files/pdf/ward23_2006profiles.pdf
2011 Population: 88,435 http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/City Planning/Wards/Files/pdf/W/Ward 23 Profile 2011.pdf
http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/City Planning/Wards/Files/pdf/W/Ward 23 NHS Profile 2011.pdf
2016 Population: over 100,000
Also notice the Immigration data, significantly higher percentage of 1st generations and recent immigrants VS rest of Toronto,.... thus, this area is being referred to as "the new Spadina" (landing area for new immigrants). Visible minorities, especially first generations and more recent immigrants, are more likely to prefer their own ethnic grocery VS generic grocery.

During this same 20 year period, the generic supermarket in NorthYorkCentre also had to deal with their aging White customer base - many of the original post war bungalow homeowners were becoming empty nester living on more fixed income, starting to down size or move into nursing homes. And as these old bungalows get sold off and rebuilt into new McMansions, it's more likely a visible minority would become the new owner.

Loblaws acquired Chinese T&T - thus, EmpressWalk carry some T&T products (like a fraction of a real T&T store, mainly dry food items - it's not like anyone would ever say "let's go Chinese grocery shopping at EmpressWalk Loblaws") and this might explain why this supermarket hasn't done as poorly as the other area supermarkets - it's basically a few tiny drops of water in the middle of a Chinese ethnic Food Desert. The Church&Doris Metro and old Yonge&Sheppard Metro under-performed while other nearby Metro in areas with higher White demographic like Bathurst&Sheppard, Yonge&Lawrence remains busy.
http://neoformix.com/Projects/DotMaps/TorontoVisMin.html

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

WholeFoodsMarket at HullmarkCentre opened in Fall 2014,... usually commercial lease are 5 years or multiples of 5 years terms thus, I picked 2019 & 2024 as years they're likely to close down. Going forward, it's only going to get tougher and tougher to keep this WholeFoodsMarket operational,....
- This huge WholeFoodsMarket supermarket is likely being out-performed by each of the area's tiny mini-marts in terms of number of customers and average sale amount,.... most folks stock up on their grocery elsewhere but drop by WholeFoodsMarket or other area supermarket & mini-marts when they run out of something at home - typical WholeFoodsMarket supermarket shopper comes out with half a bag of stuff.
- WholeFoodsMarket USA facing issues of rigging scales and overcharging their customer reflects badly - their customers went from "grocery connoisseur" to "stupid suckers"! Also carrying specialized product brands most are not familiar with - thus can't comparison shop and get overcharged! At $14 WholeFoodsMarket price for their 0.9kg rotisserie Chicken,... is 2.5 times more expensive than the $8 Costco charges their 1.3kg rotisserie Chicken that's larger, juicier and taste better!
- WholeFoodsMarket USA treat the Canadian stores as USA stores and are unable to adapt to local ethnic demographically different markets like NorthYorkCentre
- HullmarkCentre WholeFoodsMarket will see huge drop in customers when new WholeFoodsMarket opens in midtown (Bayview north of Eglinton) in Spring 2017 (one year delay due to WholeFoodsMarket & RioCan issues) as their midtown customers will choose the closer store.
- As more midtown condos come online along Eglinton and DVP-Gardiner tolls come into effect, led to more traffic congestion at 401 interchanges which will encourage driving customers from south of 401 to use the newer midtown WholeFoodsMarket.
- With regards to development, NorthYorkCentreSecondaryPlan Area near Yonge&Sheppard is already basically full - only a few sites left like YongeSheppardCentre in-fill rental apartment project (construction start in Spring 2018, Menkes 4800 Yonge (OMB) which will likely get chopped and ConservatoryGroup Pearl2 (developer stalled),... that's only 3 condo towers in the immediate area - the amount of available local land for high density development is limited. The SheppardCommercialSecondaryPlan area is being capped to about 5 storeys,... the real population growth in NorthYorkCentre area is north of Empress-ParkHomes and NorthYongeStreetSecondaryPlan area north of FinchHydroCorridor which are not within normal walking distance of HullmarkCentre WholeFoodsMarket.
- Many area residents, regardless of ethnicity, do their primary grocery shopping outside the area. Since grocery shopping in the area requires multiple trips per week to haul a few items home when walking,.... or driving and constantly worrying about going over allocated parking time allowed. Easier to just drive outside the area for primary grocery shopping and only use local supermarkets and mini-marts for emergencies to get forgotten or just ran out of basic items between main grocery shopping trips.

The densification of NorthYorkCentre has about 66,000 people living in condos with mainly an average of 2.0-2.5 people per condo unit VS 3.0 people per house; smaller households are more likely to rely on ready-made-food items from cafe, food courts, mini-marts, restaurants, etc,...

At HullmarkCentre WholeFoodsMarket, their supermarket component does poorly and will continue to under-perform. Only their Cafe and Ready-Made items seem to do well but that's because NorthYorkCentre is a moderately-severe "Food Swamp" (over abundance of poor quality food choices (fast-food/mini-mart/convenience-stores) VS healthier food) and WholeFoodsMarket cater to a market looking for healthier food choices. But going forward, the amount of local competition in this Cafe and Ready-Made-Food space will increase significantly as more ethnic centric food places opens in not just the Food Court of EmeraldPark but also along their Yonge Street Frontage directly across the street - plus their second floor supermarket space is still undetermined - likely to eventually be an ethnic supermarket which generally also provide more Ready-Made-Food items. Ditto for already approved supermarket space at base of ConservatoryGroup's Pearl2 project (waiting for sales & construction). In addition to the new generic Longos at YongeSheppardCentre which will likely have a competing Cafe and Ready-Made-Food section; the YongeSheppardCentre mall is already formatted to have a regular FoodCourt area along with a proportionally large amount of retail space dedicated to food service - restaurants establishments VS the mix at a typical mall.


Since the new YongeSheppardCentre Mall itself and their new Longos supermarket is really just going after the same over-serviced decreasing generic market,.... and if they execute well with regards to Cafe, Ready-Made-Food, restaurants, etc,.... then the final nail in the coffin for HullmarkCentre WholeFoodsMarket will be sooner rather than later.

Clearly, the HullmarkCentre WholeFoodsMarket made a huge mistake opening a store in NorthYorkCentre because they were focused too much on the area's population density and income level data but not ethnic demographic and immigration data,.... Metro was smart enough to realize their mistake (just by simply observing HullmarkCentre WholeFoodsMarket) before they actually opened another money losing generic Metro at EmeraldPark,.... the question now is will generic Longos realize their mistake before or after they open their store at YongeSheppardCentre,...





Interestingly, NorthYorkCentre has always had problems supporting more than 3 generic supermarkets,.... in this old post I discuss how in the mid-1970's there was once 3 supermarkets at Yonge&Sheppard in addition to the 4th one - Dominion at NorthTownPlaza / now Metro at Church&Doris,... back then SheppardCentre Dominion quickly failed because it had hard to find hidden underground parking whereas all the other supermarket had huge street-level parking in front of their supermarkets visible from Yonge Street

Let's use a time machine,... there used to be THREE large supermarkets here at Yonge&Sheppard,... in the mid-1970s! Miracle at south-east corner of Yonge & Sheppard, Loblaws at north-east corner of Yonge & SpringGarden, and Dominion the lower level of the brand new SheppardCentre when it first opened in 1976.

Why might this be relevant today,... well, just like Loblaw`s T&T was supposed to be the original anchor tenant at EmeraldPark,... back in 1976 when SheppardCentre opened, Loblaws was supposed to be the original anchor tenant in the lower level,... but they decided to stay at their Yonge&SpringGarden location. So Dominion opened up in the lower level of SheppardCentre,... how long did that Dominion last,.... Only ONE year! Why,... not enough customers,... it was a terrible location! SheppardCentre does NOT have any street level parking lot,... the current parking entrance for SheppardCentre is on Doris south of GreenField, near the apartment buildings!

Whereas, the Miracle and Loblaws had street level parking lots highly visible from Yonge Street.

Oh,... EmeraldPark won't have visible street level parking lot either,.. but then either will HullmarkCentre nor does SheppardCentre,... so none would have a clear advantage this time. Then it comes down to location, Location, LOCATION,... and as I stated before EmeraldPark has the worst location of the 3,... EmeraldPark really needed a niche,... like ethnic mall to serve the local demographic. Lets see how long the EmeraldPark Metro lasts,.... especially if and when RioCan bring in a couple of major anchors to SheppardCentre,... major anchors as in a Walmart or another grocery store. The next few years should be interesting around here,...

BTW,... for the history buff,... we keep on referring to the Miracle, then Dominion, then Metro at the south-east corner of Yonge & Sheppard,... but before Miracle,.. it was a Grand Union (New Jersey chain that was acquired by Tops Supermarket in US),... and then Steinberg`s,... and later renamed Miracle.

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...is-rosario-varacalli.4829/page-72#post-757232


Today, the under-performing Metro at Church&Doris is waiting for renovations, EmpressWalk Loblaws remain busy but not packed, HullmarkCentre WholeFoodsMarket supermarket has customer level comparable to a mini-mart,.... there's already excess capacity in the local generic supermarket segment,...... and soon YongeSheppardCentre will host a Longos that'll just slice that same generic supermarket pie into smaller pieces. And all of them now suffer from the same hidden underground parking issues but now most of their customers are walk-ins,.... the supermarket most vulnerable is the WholeFoodsMarket since its product line is the least mainstream and least adaptable to the area's ethnic demographic.

 

[mkerian]

What a wall of text. About ethnicity and food again.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Demolition phase of SheppardCentre seems to be over,.... construction started,... right now along Yonge Street frontage,... cutting the crap out of the cement slabs between lower level and upper level of mall,... seems to be for the smaller northern Yonge frontage entrance - interior lobby/hallway stairs area,.... see that huge hole in the floor in front of the guy in yellow pants - that hole was cut!!! Also notice the new reinforcement support beam above his head.


View attachment 92102

That hole and reinforcement support beam wasn't there in my previous photo taken last month from the same angle! And shown here,.....
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-riocan-quadrangle.17901/page-14#post-1157364
View attachment 92105


Look carefully and you'll see a couple of these huge round disc cement cutters machines
View attachment 92103 View attachment 92104

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-riocan-quadrangle.17901/page-15#post-1166150


Continuing to cut the crap out of the cement slabs between lower level and upper level of the mall - right along Yonge frontage - seems to also be for all the Yonge frontage restaurants,... so they'll be level with Yonge Street,... looks like they'll have to lower new floor for Yonge frontage restaurants by about 5 feet. This seems to be their system of eliminating the moat,....

 

[khris]

I know. @interchange42 told them to stop, but they haven't.

 

[Johnny Au]

I know. @interchange42 told them to stop, but they haven't.

Discussions about ethnic food availability in the North York Centre area belongs in "Toronto Issues" or "General Discussions."

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

In the late 1990's when they added the movie theatre on top, they dealt with the Yonge Street frontage centre moat by building the new restaurant spaces over them - thus Mirage and what later became BostonPizza & SpringRolls were all split-level in the middle,.... now they're cutting the crap out of those concrete slabs so the split-level area is removed out of the Yonge Frontage restaurant area,.... this will allow those generic fake ethnic restaurants like BasilBox and Chipotle to be perfectly flat throughout and lined up with street-level on Yonge Street.

Notice, guy in white hat operating concrete cutter (two other concrete cutter sitting by) - they're cutting the concrete slab into squares and using fork-lifts to hold the cut concrete square up,.... VS letting them fall and damage floor

Here the cut concrete square get passed from fork-lift to BobCat,... then they're stacked.
Mmmmm,..... Stack of concrete waffle squares,.... Yummy!,.... Let Go My Eggo,..... where's the fake ethnic Aunt Jemima syrup? Or generic Maple syrup?

Too bad RioCan isn't building any tiny PacificMall-type cubicle stores here,... these concrete squares looks to be about the right size and could have been re-used,...

 

[amnesiajune]

Too bad RioCan isn't building any tiny PacificMall-type cubicle stores here

Because those are doing so well across the street, right?

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Too bad RioCan isn't building any tiny PacificMall-type cubicle stores here,... these concrete squares looks to be about the right size and could have been re-used,...

Because those are doing so well across the street, right?

There you go again, trying to change the context of what I'm saying,....


Anyways, it's a matter of perspective,... from developer perspective - all the 75 PacificMall type cubicle stores and 60 office-condos at EmeraldPark were a great success for them because they all sold out! (all PacificMall type cubicle stores sold out in 2009, 2 years prior to construction),... the developer profited from them and that's all they care about. Ditto for all the 237 office-condos at Tridel HullmarkCentre,.. developer sold off all the office space the City required them to build,... sold mainly to overseas Asian investors with no intention of ever opening office space here or renting it out,... so ≈75% remains empty,... Ditto at EmeraldPark office-condos,.... Generally, whenever office space or retail space are difficult to sell,.... developer's best bet is to partition them off into little office-condo units or tiny PacificMall cubicle type stores to sell off to small investors,....

Of course, the City and Community isn't happy because empty office space don't provide local jobs,... and empty PacificMall type cubicle stores don't provide the beneficial retail street-vibe interface between area and development,.... A lot of the (primarily Asian) owner-investors of the tiny PacificMall type cubicle stores have problems renting them out like at Aura, WorldOnYonge, SplendidChina, EmeraldPark,... but that's their problem - developer already sold and profited from them,... developer is out of the picture.

Whereas NorthYorkCentre residential-condos are 35% rental,... at newer towers like HullmarkCentre and EmeraldPark, 70% of residential-condos are private owners renting them out. RioCan originally wanted 39-storey residential condo at SheppardCentre,... but were faced with lots of community resistance and City's desire for more rental units,.... the compromise was 35-storey of residential-rental units which was still over the original 100m (approximately 30 storey) height limit. Thus, as residential-rental units,... the developer RioCan will be in the picture long term as the eventual land-lord (VS selling units as residential-condos, walking away and having new owners rent out about 70% of units),... so it's now in RioCan's best interest to actually build a high quality durable residential tower,..... which I'm looking forward to so I can compare it to the crappy job Bazis did with EmeraldPark,... Bazis took so many short-cuts and cut so many corners at EmeraldPark just to save a few bucks and maximize their profit at everyone else's expense. Since Bazis EmeraldPark and Tridel HullmarkCentre got CityPlanning approvals and started construction about the same time, that also allowed a great comparison of construction process and build quality,.... as usual Tridel has a great reputation for building quality products and delivering on time.

 

[mkerian]

.... this will allow those generic fake ethnic restaurants like BasilBox and Chipotle to be perfectly flat throughout and lined up with street-level on Yonge Street.

Mmmmm,..... Stack of concrete waffle squares,.... Yummy!,.... Let Go My Eggo,..... where's the fake ethnic Aunt Jemima syrup? Or generic Maple syrup?

...

Wait!!! Aunt Jemima is fake AND ethnic? My whole world is a lie...I thought it was just maple syrup.

Down with generic fake ethnic restaurants! I want Mexicans making my Mexican food, Japanese making my sushi, and Armenians making my lahmajun! And whatever ethnicity is supposed to make my Basil Boxy food!