Reactivating North Toronto gives me considerable pause. It's easy to draw lines on an envelope and create a fantasy line there.... but when you analyse the thing critically the case gets weaker. I agree we need to acquire and bank this line as a future corridor....but for what?
- There arent many key destinations within walking distance, so it isn't a preferred ldestination in itself. The greatest strength is as a transfer point, ie only attractive if it creates a routing that is more direct/efficient than Union.
- As a routing towards downtown, it's inferior to Union. At Union, there are three options....walk, Line 1 University, Line 1 Yonge. Riders fan out from the depot. At Summerhill, downtown is a much longer walk, and only Line 1 Yonge is available - that puts the whole ridership on a single line that is already bursting. Not an attractive terminal point for VIA as it's further from downtown hotels, and disconected from the main RER hub.
- If we say it's a better crosstown connection for Barrie, Kichener then we are saying Crosstown didn't work. Let's wait and see before we go there. If Crosstown is successful, it will be the uptown crosslink that connects to RER. If Sheppard is extended as a subway, now we have two excellent crosstown routes. What does a North Toronto link add?
- I can't see an interleaved servive on the existing routes being very attractive. Is the interleaving 1:1? So the planned 15 minute RER becomes 7.5 minutes? Or does Union bound RER become every half hour and North Toronto become half hour? The former is much more expensive and the latter is a diluted service plan.
- If the intent is strictly numerical relief, satellite platforms at Union near Spadina and Sherbourne make more operational sense.
- Connections to union bound lines are not that feasible. Look at the added stations we would need.
That says to me the main opportunity would be as an express routing that 'flies' across Toronto, without all the subway/Crosstown stops. Port Credit/Kipling/Lansdowne/Dupont/Yonge/DRL/Crosstown/Sheppard/Steeles/407 might create some interesting connectivity, as would a Pearson Branch. Perhaps this is how SmartTrack stations should be served, rather than adding stops to RER and slowing it down.
At the end of the day, this feels much more like a fantasy exercise than anything for my lifetime.
- Paul
PS - was there already a separate thread for this?
Good critical arguments here in general, thanks. I would comment on the following.
There definitely are a lack of 'key destinations' (as in single points), but there certainly are certain dense neighbourhoods (existing and upcoming) that it would serve: the broader Junction area (i.e. what
@smably mentioned), Yorkville and Yonge-St Clair, Flemingdon Park, Agincourt, and Malvern.
Also, it is not the same as the Crosstown LRT, as this is a higher-order heavy rail service with faster speed and longer station distances; it serves a different function of moving people across the GTA, not just Toronto. People would be able to move quickly between the neighbourhoods mentioned above, different parts of Mississauga, and Milton (and maybe one day, Cambridge/Region of Waterloo). There is no benefit to funneling everyone through Union when it could save people time.
I also don't believe all good transit lines have to directly intersect key destinations, they merely need to integrate well into lines that do, and become an effective piece of the broader rapid transit network. A midtown corridor, which includes the existing Milton line would do just that in the context of The Big Move, linking (W to E): 407 bus service, Hurontario LRT, Dundas BRT, Highway 427 South BRT, TTC Line 2, TTC Line 1, TTC Line 5, Sheppard East LRT/subway, Highway 7 viva, and 407 bus service (again). If the Pickering Airport ever gets built, it also opens up the possibility of a rail link to to it from opening day.
If there's a huge knock against this line, it is that those connections potentially exist, but may be a bit expensive and technically challenging to implement. Figuring out a way to stop in Agincourt to integrate it with both the GO Stouffville line and whatever rapid transit gets built on Sheppard (if ever), a pathway to Crosstown platforms at Sunnybrook Park, making a second entrance to Summerhill subway station, and figuring out something in the Junction (connect with GO Kitchener/Barrie? extending the west leg of the DRL north from Dundas West subway station?).
