Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you have Photoshop, it's often as simple as opening the PDF in PS and selecting "open images"
Other times, the images are fragmented and "open page" followed by cropping is the better option
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steveintoronto
Superstar
I gave up half way through. If nothing else, this vid shows how incredibly poor directions and a mangled sense of meaningful flow has been badly botched at Onion Station.
I'm now livid, finding out what I already knew intuitively, that to get to UPX platform, you can go through doors from the main platforms, especially doing the upstairs route from the bus terminal.
Anyone and everyone on staff I asked to get there told me I had to go down, back, around up and out my freakin' behind to get there. God help anyone who doesn't have a basic understanding of the layout of Onion.
Absolute failing grades! I've always had no trouble finding my way around London Bridge Station renos, Waterloo and Paddington during extensive renos and refits.
So why can't Onion get it right?
One of the major failings is typical of this computer generation (and I'm a tech, albeit electronic): They don't display and understand simple flow diagrams!
Why is posting a flow schematic so impossible for this gen? (Edit: In all fairness, my comments are specific to the Onion Station detour debacle deluxe.
Btw: My solution to getting around it? Go outside, and do it the longer way. In the end, it's far faster and one is not overwhelmed with the sense of being flushed through the sewer pipes like a lump of waste. Take a close look at the vid, there's very little sense of rational flow.)
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The station has remarkably poor sightlines - everywhere you look you are assaulted by competing information and sheer clutter (and that's even before the renos). Cross and contraflow just makes it that much worse.
AoD
steveintoronto
Superstar
You nailed it. I felt badly after writing that, like I'm being cranky...which happens on occasion...lol...but watching that vid crystallized to me how *dizzying it is* to navigate what *should* be a simple maze. I admit, I am showing my age a bit, I used to be very clever dealing with that kind of nonsense...hell, I even used to drive truck and cab in the GTA and lived to talk about it...but as a distance cyclist, I'm still good with maps and directions *given the right information in a rational and diagrammatic way*. So if I get lost, confused and frustrated trying to navigate that cesspool maze, so must a lot of others.
And as I pointed out prior, I've since found out that a lot of it is needless! There *are* more rational ways to get across the maze in many cases, and a lot of that is dependent on allowing the traveller to retain a sense of direction. Posting layout diagrams with the classic "You Are Here" marked on them, and your present orientation also marked, would offer much better help to the harried.
It's a bit like those automated check-out counters in the stupidmarkets. The last thing you want to do when your mind is preoccupied is learn someone else's "easy" system of following their instructions. Not!
Someone on the Onion project had best take a lesson in the psychology of direction and traffic flow. God help the situation in a medical or general emergency.
DSC
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It seems a bit early to start having conniptions* about moving around Union Station when it is still VERY much under construction.
* Conniption: a fit of hysterical excitement or anger.
* Conniption: a fit of hysterical excitement or anger.
steveintoronto
Superstar
You completely miss the point. It's going to be that way for years, not to mention that in my experience with *far more involved renovations*, massive compared to Union, they had a sense of how to signpost and illustrate the alternate travel routes to get from 'A' to 'B'. You might do well to Google for London Bridge Station and how they went about it. I had no trouble there, even being routed through the catacombs, finding my destination. Ditto Waterloo and Paddington stations during renos. (I was on various work sojourns in London).
Onion is a freakin mess, not because the building and renos are unavoidable, but because *signage* is anything but helpful. I repeat: Whoever is overseeing the diversions has hardly a clue on what's necessary to move that many people through a convoluted situation.
http://www.teamlondonbridge.co.uk/default.aspx?m=21&mi=270&ms=93
smallspy
Senior Member
That's because the route from one end to the other has always been off of the platforms and through the concourse. That pre-dates all construction.
And I don't know if you recall, but there are signs on that platform that say that you need a valid ticket to be on the platform. It's never been meant to be used as a thoroughfare. And when people are waiting/loading up on a train on the platform, things can get very congested - they don't need hordes of passers-through making it worse.
Does that stop people from knowing about it from using it? Of course not - I use it all the time. And I risk the consequences of getting caught.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I use it to connect through. I have a valid reason to be there. Point stands. And btw: There are now signs and arrows, albeit small, now exactly describing that route of travel.
Really? That's very odd, as the first time I used it, I specifically asked the GO cops standing at the base of the stairs in the bus station the best way to get there.
That's when it dawned on me that most of the staff haven't a clue on some of the better ways to move people more directly through the meilleux.
It's now marked on the door on the Skywalk side too, albeit only modestly. Been discussed and photos posted in these forums on it.
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Megaton327
Senior Member
That is false. There are no such signs. Platform 3 is the one platform at Union that is NOT a fare-paid zone. Take note of the official Union map which CLEARLY denotes it as the primary accessible route between the York concourse and the Bus terminal. Also, there is signage in the York concourse marking Platform 3 as the route to buses/platforms 41-47. I use it all the time and have never had an issue--it is, in fact, definitely intended for use as a thoroughfare.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
It wasn't used as a throughfare before, but since roughly around the PanAm Games, there's no farepaid signage anymore (on Platform 3) and they now put wayfinding treating Platform 3 as a throughfare.
As far as I know, it was a farepaid zone before -- not anymore.
Even the VIA staff (a bit slow to realize Platform 3 is not a farepaid platform) has finally stopped accosting me when I take this route...
In the York Concourse, is this door labelled "41-47" -- that's the stairs to Platform 3.
It is also marked on maps on walls as the fastest accessible route between York concourse and the GO bus station.
Need to wheelchair your way to the GO bus station from York concourse today? It's the only sheltered route anywhere in Union that is accessible. By accessibility law, it essentially defacto legally cannot be a farepaid zone at least for these people given lack of other accessible options that does not entail going outside in the rain.
As far as I know, it was a farepaid zone before -- not anymore.
Even the VIA staff (a bit slow to realize Platform 3 is not a farepaid platform) has finally stopped accosting me when I take this route...
In the York Concourse, is this door labelled "41-47" -- that's the stairs to Platform 3.
It is also marked on maps on walls as the fastest accessible route between York concourse and the GO bus station.
Need to wheelchair your way to the GO bus station from York concourse today? It's the only sheltered route anywhere in Union that is accessible. By accessibility law, it essentially defacto legally cannot be a farepaid zone at least for these people given lack of other accessible options that does not entail going outside in the rain.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
Confirmed by GO staff just two hours back at the Onion Bus Depot. They perked up when I questioned them, because there had been an internal 'discussion' on the matter, where middle management weren't even aware of the what upper management had decided, let alone those on the front line.
So the Service Rep was delighted to point me over to the large featured sign in the small building at the bottom of the stairs westernmost on the bus platform.
The *front line service reps* are pushing it as a way to avoid "the horrendous confusion in the basement of Union".
Front line reps also very pleased that some of us care enough to discuss this in forums, and get the message out.
I had hoped to double check this today, but was there with a bike at rush hour, and although the western end isn't "Union Station" proper, I 'didn't want no trouble'...but I got tripped up on that last time through, as that's the route I usually take from UPX to Lakeshore West, and you have just minutes to transfer. The door to access that stairwell now has the fitness club logos all over it. And I stood and swore last time I was there, time was ticking, and there was *no indication* that it was one of those doors. WTF? I had to run across the street into the station the other side, pushing an invaluable bike through the traffic, to get to my platform.
It was only coming back the other way a few days later I realized why 'the door had disappeared'. It now has the fitness club decals all over it, and looks like the club itself. And it's not the cash cost to join that scares me about those places, (although that's bad enough) it's the cost of pretension. What a pathetic way to 'keep fit'.
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smallspy
Senior Member
That's recent-ish then. There were most certainly signs at the Skywalk entrance, the ramp from the Oak Room leading to Platform 3 and the staircases from the VIA concourse that indicated that it was a fare-paid zone past those respective points. I seem to recall one on the platform itself when the Bay Concourse was still open, but that memory is a bit fuzzy.
In any case, if they are now allowing it, that is a very positive step.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
44 North
Senior Member
little bit of 10, some jellybean, but at home I'm mostly using XP. Old, yes. But it's surprisingly reliable. For image extraction I tried using another's suggestion and it worked fairly well.
Thanks, it worked. I don't care for PS so I tried Inkscape as well and that worked too...maybe even better than the PS method. Didn't have luck with GIMP, but probably cause I couldn't figure it out. But if anyone wants to use a free open-source image software program, I always vouch for Inkscape. IMO much more user friendly than PS.
....
Back on topic, yes agree with others Union is rough. I'm wondering if it's ever been considered to have the northern-most 1/3 tracks become terminating tracks. So instead of the waiting area being below all the tracks, the northern tracks would see shorter trains terminate at buffer stops just east and west of the waiting area. In other words the new waiting area would be on the surface level for some trains.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Most go trains take up the whole length of those tracks as they are at least 10 or 12 cars long now. The only short trains in Union station these days are the via rail trains and the often park them on the same tracks as each other. The only exception is the 3 days a week that the Canadian is in Toronto.