Toronto Social at Church + Dundas | 164.89m | 52s | Pemberton | RAW Design

I'm not sure I buy the developer's claim that EVERY unit needs to have a balcony in order for the project to be economically viable. Sure, they probably need a balcony on every unit in order to sell them all in one day at a sales event in China. But there's no way it would affect the economics that intensely so as to require one on EVERY unit.

You could sacrifice 10% of them to allow minimal articulation on the facade, I'm certain. This is a case of a developer being greedy and/or not giving a hoot.

Give up a few balconies for a better design. I'm sure some foreign investors will still buy them. It's not like they'll ever set foot there, anyway.
 
You lost me with the foreign investors rant. We know from stats that foreign investors make up just a small percentage of buyers of Toronto condos, and since the tax came in, even fewer.

That doesn't mean that there won't be lots of investors here; the building is being marketed as condo suites for student renters. Nearby Grid Condos sold out with zero balconies, so Pemberton is clueless when it comes to designing for this demographic apparently: they'll buy, balconies or not, if they want to rent to students.

So, the building does not need balconies for every suite, and therefore they do not need to be wraparound, whether or not they're pinched or extended in places to create visual interest. (You can create the interest with balconies without covering the entire surface of the building.)

In regards to the DRP lament about the state of architecture here being reduced to just balconies here… yes, when it gets to be the case where that's the only part of the exterior expression left to architects to play with, that is a sad state of affairs. Nothing wrong, however, with using balcony design to create the final look, and in fact, that's a given if the building is to have balconies.

42
 
I thought the city required balconies on new condos?? Am I wrong? Does anyone know? Regardless, the UT front cover article brings up some serious concerns regarding architecture in T.O. Expression of the built form in so many of our new developments seems to be limited to different ways of forming and attaching balconies to a box in the sky and, too often, the results are akin to putting lipstick on a pig. Condo balconies are often too small and/or too poorly designed to be usefull. How often do you see people sitting in balconies in big condo buildings? I never do.
 
I don't think balconies are a city requirement. In any case, the other drawback to them is thermal inefficiency - balconies basically work like fins in a heat sink.

AoD
 
torontologist said:
I'm not sure I buy the developer's claim that EVERY unit needs to have a balcony in order for the project to be economically viable. Sure, they probably need a balcony on every unit in order to sell them all in one day at a sales event in China. But there's no way it would affect the economics that intensely so as to require one on EVERY unit.

You could sacrifice 10% of them to allow minimal articulation on the facade, I'm certain. This is a case of a developer being greedy and/or not giving a hoot.

Give up a few balconies for a better design. I'm sure some foreign investors will still buy them. It's not like they'll ever set foot there, anyway.
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I really enjoy our balcony but the attractiveness of a balcony for me is dependent on location. There are certainly building sites where if I were offered a choice between a balcony or no balcony but with the additional equivalent sq. footage of floor space- I would definitely choose the latter. I have no idea why anybody would want to sit outside overlooking the gardner or a busy intersection in the core, that has no appeal to me at all. Not to mention the fact that it is unusable for half the year anyway.
 
interchange42 said:
You lost me with the foreign investors rant. We know from stats that foreign investors make up just a small percentage of buyers of Toronto condos, and since the tax came in, even fewer.

That doesn't mean that there won't be lots of investors here; the building is being marketed as condo suites for student renters. Nearby Grid Condos sold out with zero balconies, so Pemberton is clueless when it comes to designing for this demographic apparently: they'll buy, balconies or not, if they want to rent to students.

So, the building does not need balconies for every suite, and therefore they do not need to be wraparound, whether or not they're pinched or extended in places to create visual interest. (You can create the interest with balconies without covering the entire surface of the building.)

In regards to the DRP lament about the state of architecture here being reduced to just balconies here… yes, when it gets to be the case where that's the only part of the exterior expression left to architects to play with, that is a sad state of affairs. Nothing wrong, however, with using balcony design to create the final look, and in fact, that's a given if the building is to have balconies.

42
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There is no accurate measure of how many condos are "foreign owned". Different observers have different definitions of "foreign" (Do international students count, for example? They -and their parents- are exempt from the foreign buyers' tax). Most define a foreign owner as someone who doesn't have their primary residence in Canada, which is super flimsy and often self reported without any proof. Furthermore, a majority of foreign money coming into the real estate market (according to some industry sources) is coming through a relative with Canadian citizenship. So no, foreign investors are not a small percentage, and there are certainly more of them than the numbers that get thrown around in media. To suggest that they do not have an effect on the market is... incorrect. Yes, they are outnumbered by domestic investors, certainly.

Sorry if my earlier post came off as a "rant"; I'm passionate about this city, and tired of it being filled with monotonous architecture. Anyway, this post is a tangent, this project is painfully boring, and I won't derail this thread again.
 
You are absolutely correct very High percentage of all sales are two foreign buyers, Who have relatives in Canada.
As for balconies they are very desirable as the units being built in Trontone getting smaller and smaller and balcony represents some kind of a additional outside space, and sometimes I love the snow storage space.
95% Of Unit Will be bought by investors to rent the units out to students who go to Ryerson.
 
I'm on the 22nd floor in my building and use my balcony all the time, if it counts for anything. It's a recessed balcony though so I think that cuts back on wind quite a bit. It's actually almost never windy on the balcony.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I'm on the 22nd floor in my building and use my balcony all the time, if it counts for anything. It's a recessed balcony though so I think that cuts back on wind quite a bit. It's actually almost never windy on the balcony.
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That would be my impression as well (I don't have a balcony in my condo, so I don't have any experience).
 
26th floor here. We use our balcony frequently, as do the grandchildren when they visit. (Any grandparent will tell you that is a determining factor.)

But I think Bogtrotter is right about location. We have a good view of the Lake. If we were hanging over the Gardiner, we wouldn’t use it as much. The note about a little extra stowage space is also true.

But we won’t be using it today. It’s cold out there!
 
Dan R said:
Anyone know latest on presales?
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Looks like it's been quiet. Someone at sales center yesterday said he thought they would go into sales "sometime next week". Anyone know further? How far did presales go?
 
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This building would look great by the harbourfront, loving the angles of this building ! It deserves to have height of a supertall !
 
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