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Toronto Ridiculous NIMBYism thread

Why do tall buildings need to justify themselves? Why is legally-mandated low-rise development in a fast-growing city considered the norm, even in transit-rich areas with local amenities, where the growth can be handled with existing infrastructure?

I'm just questioning the paradigm where the identified problem is the height of the building and not the fact that it's illegal to build tall buildings next to a subway station, in a sprawling region starved for rapid transit...
Paris limits itself to 6 storeys in most of the city and it's doing just fine. You won't find many people defending Montparnasse as a big benefit to the city.
 
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Junction residents angry they are getting a Food Basics instead of a Metro in the base of the new Fuse Condo

http://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2017/05/junction-triangle-toronto-food-basics/

Did you read the comments on the petition? Here is a select sample (further anonymized)

  • Keep the metro !
  • Food Basics is a surefire way to drive the value of the condo units down.
  • Honestly guys, let's not be Basic.... Metro is where it's at! Sometimes a girl's gotta get her non-busted organic produce on, you feel me?
  • Keep the metro please. The area is changing and metro is a better choice
  • No to basic food.
  • We moved here with the promise of a 24 hour metro opening. I have terminal cancer and this was supposed to help us tremendously
  • This is false advertising at its finest. Shame on everyone involved.
  • You wannabe Yorkville douchebags moved in to a working class neighborhood!
  • Why do you think your condo was a lot cheaper than anywhere else in the city?
  • Across the street there is subsidized housing at 1011 Lansdowne Ave and a Coffee Time, north of that is a Uranium plant and south of Dupont on the east side is a halfway house.
  • You're all ridiculous and I hope you get harassed by your crackhead neighbours when walking home.
  • Realestate has been sold on the promise of the convenience of a 24hr Metro. Anyone who bought a place in this neighbourhood based on that broken promise should consider a class action suit.
  • Metro please!
  • People deserve good quality store they were promised. Otherwise there are better locations to buy property in Toronto.
  • Total bait and switch.
  • Metro was the initial plan!!
  • We already have Fresco right around the corner. There has to be something better....
  • There's already a Fresh Co in the area. Residents deserve a better choice.
  • In regards to fuse condos it really makes me angry since day one that the condos have been built they have been advertising that a metro would be coming into the community. They even had it drawn up in the condos rendering's and now to hear they are putting a food basics instead I find that very dishonest and deceitful. Metro would have been a great addition to the community they are known for their cleanliness, variety of selection, offering of different departments (bakery, fish meat) all which offer a superior product comparable to sobeys and loblaws. I think it would have been brought much more appeal to that up and coming community than a discount supermarket.
  • the only people who are really mad about food basics are landlords who are worried they wont be able to rip off people for overpriced cracker box apartments anymore.
  • The discount grocer FreshCo is just a block away. There is no need for two discount grocers. as Metro would provide the fresh bakery and deli that neither FreshCo or Food Basics offer.
  • Part of my decision to buy in the area was based on the promise that there would be a metro near me.
  • Metro please. Don't wants food basics... what a waste...
  • As a 6 year tenant in the Standard lofts across from this new building I was personally looking forward to a more modern shopping experience. This corner is in much need of something modern. There are enough lower priced shopping options not even a block away. When do we rename this Discount and Lansdowne corner?
  • BRING BACK METRO I MOVED TO THIS AREA WITH THE PROMISE OF KNOWING A GOOD GROCERY STORE WAS COMING TO THIS UP AND COMING AREA. FOOD BASICS WOULD BE A MAJOR STEP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION AND WOULD ONLY BRING THE KIND OF PEOPLE BACK TO THIS FLOURISHING PART OF OUR CITY!!
  • This neighbourhood doesn't need another depressing, understaffed, windowless, bargain basement supermarket. You're going to force all those young, health-conscious Fuse residents to take their money to the new Organic Garage instead. Dumb decision, Metro Inc.
 
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If you follow the threads on BlogTO or especially the neighbourhood Facebook group, people are generally pissed at the PETITION, not the Metro->FoodBasics switcheroo. People overall are far more welcoming of Food Basics, and that elitist petition really struck a nerve with locals. It was never really controversial at all until this petition surfaced.
 
yes, 100 people does not make a neighbourhood (and have these people looked across the road at the Coffee Time?). The Freshco nearby in Galleria is actually pretty good - and will still be cheaper than a Food Basics anyway.
 
If you follow the threads on BlogTO or especially the neighbourhood Facebook group, people are generally pissed at the PETITION, not the Metro->FoodBasics switcheroo. People overall are far more welcoming of Food Basics, and that elitist petition really struck a nerve with locals. It was never really controversial at all until this petition surfaced.

Yep - someone can write a paper about how grocery stores can be used as a proxy for self-identifying socioeconomic class. Like notice some of the language being used in the petition - "we deserve".

AoD
 
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The only marginally legitimate complaint on that list above is the fact that it appears representations may have been made about a 24hr Metro. Assuming Food Basic isn't 24hr, and assuming those representations were actually made by the developer, I suppose someone who might have been enticed by the promise of late night or early morning shopping could be genuinely annoyed without making him/her a snob. But, of course, there was never a guarantee that the Metro would have been 24h, or would have stayed 24h. And no way of knowing if the 24h is their actual beef, or just a proxy for Food Basics = less cachet.

Otherwise, most of those complaints are just gross. Or just stupid, like the ones making unsupported market claims (there is "no need" for two discount grocers!).
 
Globe: OMB challenges to be barred within 500 metres of transit stations

Jeff Gray - City Hall Reporter

Residents would be blocked from challenging developments within 500 metres of transit stations under sweeping reforms to the Ontario Municipal Board to be unveiled next week.

The provision, revealed to The Globe and Mail by government sources, would allow municipalities to bar challenges to approved developments near GO Transit, subway or light-rail stations in order to support the goal of boosting density near transit lines.

But it is expected to alarm some neighbourhood associations, particularly in Toronto, where developers are eager to build increasingly tall condominium towers – and where residents have resisted such efforts near transit.

The provision is part of a package of proposed legislative changes designed to dramatically scale back the powers of the OMB – long criticized as too developer-friendly – and hand more power over land-use decisions to municipal councils.

One official who is familiar with the proposals but not authorized to speak to the media said the system would allow municipalities to exceed the province’s minimum standards for higher-density development near transit stations if they choose – without having to face local residents who oppose the plans at an OMB appeal.

Geoff Kettel, co-chairman of the Federation of North Toronto Residents’ Associations (FoNTRA), said the provision could make it even harder to protect the character of established neighbourhoods, citing the higher-density zoning now being allowed along Eglinton Avenue near low-density Leaside to accompany the Eglinton Crosstown light-rail line.

He said he supports higher density close to transit stations in general, but argued that a 500-metre protected zone would go too far. “It’s a sledgehammer, when you didn’t need to be that brusque about it,” Mr. Kettel said.

But he does support many of the reforms under consideration that would weaken the OMB, where he says citizen fights are costly and weighted unfairly toward developers.

The balance of the OMB changes are expected to encounter opposition from developers, who warn they could embolden NIMBY activists and make developments harder to build, even as the Greater Toronto Area faces a housing squeeze. A delegation of developers met with Premier Kathleen Wynne last month to press their case.

Still, Joe Vaccaro, the chief executive officer of the Ontario Home Builders’ Association, said developers would welcome the “new certainty” that would come with a provision to protect development near transit stations, where the province has said it wants to increase density.

“I would imagine that ratepayer groups would be up in arms,” Mr. Vaccaro said. “It is almost like trying to find a way to shield the municipalities … by saying to them: ‘If you make that tough decision, you don’t have to worry about the OMB appeal. We’re going to shield you from your angry residents.’”

The reform package comes after a lengthy review process, years of criticism of the OMB and recent headlines about a 35-storey condo on a site next to a Toronto public school in Ms. Wynne’s own midtown riding.

Other changes expected to be included were drawn from wish lists of the OMB’s critics. They include restricting the OMB to reviewing decisions by municipal councils rather than starting its own hearings from scratch; using written submissions rather than time-consuming oral hearings; moving to a panel instead of having one member pass judgment on major development projects; strictly limiting the OMB’s authority to rule on whether a development adheres to a municipality’s official plan; and barring challenges of municipal official plans.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...0-metres-of-transit-stations/article34979676/
 
whether its metro or food basics they put suck. You need a longos in there. Too bad fiesta farm can't open a second location.
 
Globe: OMB challenges to be barred within 500 metres of transit stations




http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...0-metres-of-transit-stations/article34979676/
Now is the 500m a 500m radius? If its a 500m radius that would mean 250m north on dufferin, 250m south, 250m west on Eglinton and 250m east on Eglinton. You would then start to remove some houses. Why are people so for knocking down houses to build high rise? Population in Paris about 2.2m and again as someone mentioned the buildings are 5 storeys high. London has over 8.0m and again all i saw was houses, townhouses. So much green when riding the subway there but setbacks are way less and houses built a lot closer, streets not as wide. You only have high rise in the financial district they built which I never saw. I saw nothing but low rise. Yet compared to all the ugly high rises here yet its never enough for people here. NY is an island you need to go up.
 
Now is the 500m a 500m radius? If its a 500m radius that would mean 250m north on dufferin, 250m south, 250m west on Eglinton and 250m east on Eglinton. You would then start to remove some houses. Why are people so for knocking down houses to build high rise? Population in Paris about 2.2m and again as someone mentioned the buildings are 5 storeys high. London has over 8.0m and again all i saw was houses, townhouses. So much green when riding the subway there but setbacks are way less and houses built a lot closer, streets not as wide. You only have high rise in the financial district they built which I never saw. I saw nothing but low rise. Yet compared to all the ugly high rises here yet its never enough for people here. NY is an island you need to go up.

I think you meant diameter in that scenario - but within 500 sounds like radius to me.

AoD
 
Globe: OMB challenges to be barred within 500 metres of transit stations

And in King City, here's a perfect example of why we need this particular OMB reform.

https://www.yorkregion.com/news-sto...rtical-trailer-park-proposal-on-keele-street/
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“It looks like stacked mobile homes, sort of like a vertical trailer park” - resident

“It represents the worst of what we think of developers” - resident

“If this is gateway to King City, I’m going to leave King City. To me, it looks more like a prison" - local councillor

^ Yes, please leave.


And aside from that, they say it's too tall, not enough parking, too many units, inadequate setbacks
 

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“It looks like stacked mobile homes, sort of like a vertical trailer park” - resident

“It represents the worst of what we think of developers” - resident

“If this is gateway to King City, I’m going to leave King City. To me, it looks more like a prison" - local councillor

^ Yes, please leave.

Sweet heavens this reads like The Beaverton.
 

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