Andrew3D
Active Member
The entertainment district is largely dead before nightfall and studio workers during the day, I see no issue here with shadowing or height effecting the areas pedestrian traffic amount.
Toronto Pinnacle on Adelaide | 144.47m | 46s | Pinnacle | Hariri Pontarini
- Thread starter Mike in TO
- Start date
The entertainment district is largely dead before nightfall and studio workers during the day, I see no issue here with shadowing or height effecting the areas pedestrian traffic amount.
alklay
Senior Member
So dead is good and should not be changed?
Jayomatic
Active Member
The reason it is dead is because there is barely any residential property in the entertainment district minus a couple near simcoe street. I think if we preserved the midrise character of this neighbourhood and added residential, I see no reason why this area couldn't become a Soholike area. Now with all these massive towers, were stuck with the midtown manhatten feel. Can't picture patios being all too popular in this area of town if its all in shadows.
grey
Senior Member
I think the problem with that logic is that building residential properties won't suddenly transform an area into a soho-like destination. People will still flock to wherever the action is. Cityplace is a prime example.
Also, this whole idea in the first place to build neighbourhoods designed for strolling people and streetside cafes only guarantees vibrance for about five or six months of the year. I'd like to see some ideas that are tailored to Toronto. Otherwise we're building a city that is perpetually waiting for summertime.
Also, this whole idea in the first place to build neighbourhoods designed for strolling people and streetside cafes only guarantees vibrance for about five or six months of the year. I'd like to see some ideas that are tailored to Toronto. Otherwise we're building a city that is perpetually waiting for summertime.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
I don't think the presence of tall buildings that cast long shadows automatically negates the possibility of pleasant outdoor patio eateries and bars in the downtown core. Ki added one on Bay, Commerce Court got one, Bymark added one in the TD plaza, that building on the south east corner of King and York got one, for instance. I think the different conditions make for a different sort of experience than the usual baking-in-the-sun sidewalk cafe experience, that's all.
egotrippin
Senior Member
Yeah exactly, and when it's sunny most people sit under umbrellas anyway. Think of the tall buildings as massive umbrellas; we'll be thankful once those 35 degree heat waves hit.
As for this project, it sounds great. Any parking lot going bye-bye is great, and I like how the heritage building will be moved against an existing one. I find old row buildings like the ones in question are best together, as opposed to sitting out all alone.
Outdoor patios in an area of 40-storey skyscrapers will need wind-breaks to be usable though...
Hopefully the architecture of these buildings will reflect the commericial nature of the district, and will take into account shifting sunlight and maximize areas that will retain direct sunlight for public purposes, like plazas/squares or restaurant patios. We don't want just anything slapped up in this area...
42
Hopefully the architecture of these buildings will reflect the commericial nature of the district, and will take into account shifting sunlight and maximize areas that will retain direct sunlight for public purposes, like plazas/squares or restaurant patios. We don't want just anything slapped up in this area...
42
Jayomatic
Active Member
Exactly as you said 42. That is exactly what I meant. I know any patio would work 4 months of the year but at times like spring and autumn where the only patio anyone wants to sit at, is one in the sunlight. I think a well planned building with maximum sunlight for any public purpose could add an extra 2 months or so to the time to enjoy them.
MisterF
Senior Member
^Very true. Even at the height of summer patios are packed in hot sunny weather. Because people like the sun. Much better to be on a sunny patio with an umbrella than a shady patio without one.
A lot of people on UT don't like the sun, but they're in the minority.
A lot of people on UT don't like the sun, but they're in the minority.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
With Hariri Pontarini heading up the project I don't think architecture will be much of an issue.
Pinnacle also has an option on the parking lot across the road, so there is potential for these two future projects to play off of each other.
voxpopulicosmicum
Senior Member
I thought they bought both the SE and SW corner parcels at the same time? Are you sure it's just an option on the SE corner?
Jayomatic
Active Member
Wonder if the city will approve this since its a large tower on the south side of Adelaide. Having such a tall tower will surely create a very large shadow and will most likely have a very large effect on the patios along John Street. Don't know if I can see this getting approved. It would make much more sense to move the tall tower to the south west corner of the lot and have stepbacks from Adelaide Street.
marcus_a_j
Senior Member
It's going to be one heck of a city block (John, King, Widmer, Adelaide) with the three 40+ towers going up, Festival, 21 Widmer, and this one.
3Dementia
Senior Member
I know this isn't politically correct (ie. planning correct), but I kinda love how our hodge-podge poorly planned, OMB type downtown is evolving.
At the very least, it will be unique. Ridiculous collisions of scale that somehow agree to get along. Built form fanatics live in their heads afterall... but our messy boom is going to be very cool in some ways.
I've always maintained that Toronto was accidently becoming a "great" city (immigration, entrepreneurship etc.). No reason the built form shouldn't follow this recipe for success.
At the very least, it will be unique. Ridiculous collisions of scale that somehow agree to get along. Built form fanatics live in their heads afterall... but our messy boom is going to be very cool in some ways.
I've always maintained that Toronto was accidently becoming a "great" city (immigration, entrepreneurship etc.). No reason the built form shouldn't follow this recipe for success.
Jayomatic
Active Member
The problem with that logic is that were currently living withing a stock of buildings that are roughly shorter than 20 stories besides the financial district. We have no idea how the city will feel when its constructed of mostly bland 40 story towers. Doesn't sound very pleasant to me. While Manhatten has their tall midtown cluster, I also recal that most of the north/south avenues have very wide sidewalks and the streets going west/east are very unpleasant.