Toronto Five St Joseph | 160.93m | 48s | Five St. Joseph | Hariri Pontarini

Architecturefan said:
That it does. As do the buildings along yonge street that are also part of this site. The building will have an L-shaped podium and a 49 storey tower at the corner of st. nick and st. joseph

arch012.jpg


So how does it work ... if these buildings have 'heritage designation'?
Are they going to do a facadechtomy, demolish ?

The buildings would look nice all cleaned up but it would look too much of a mismatch as part of a podium.
 
Mike in TO said:
The photo is a model done by Hariri Pontarini Architects for the corned of Yonge and St. Joseph.

The Hariri Pontarini website states:

"Combining the turn-of-the century industrial facades with modernist lines, extensive glazing and a high-rise residential tower, this mixed-use development is a mariage of old and new. Located in the heart of Toronto's historical district, the comples fuses retail, commercial and residential units."

440,000 square feet, the client is Greywood Developments and the project team is Pavid Pontarini, Christopher Ono and Mehrdad Tavakkolian.

It's located at the SW corner of St. Joseph Street. It includes 606 to 618 Yonge Street (six small old storefronts), 5 St. Joseph Street and 15 St. Nicholas Street (a big old brick loft-style building). The total site area is 28,890 square feet, large enough for a pretty significant building. Joyonge purchased it during the summer, for $10 million, equivalent to $346.14 per square foot. There would be a significant demolition cost on top of that.

I find this interesting as it would be the first real redevelopment along the shabby old west side of Yonge Street between Wellesley and Charles. (I know, some people like its gritty charm :rolleyes:, but some form of change here would not be a bad thing IMO.)


Land cost based on the above figures is ~$23 PSF = $10MM / 440,000 SF.
 
Though at the same time, it's not *that* urgent to save. Except, of course, as part of a Yonge St Heritage Conservation District. Which might not be an entirely bad idea...

I think it would be an entirely good idea and looooooong overdue.
 
cdr108, to clarify, based on the purchase price of $10 million, my figure of $346.14 is per square foot of site area. As you point out, it is also equivalent to $22.73 per square foot of buildable floor area, which is a relevant indicator (assuming the project goes ahead at 440,000 sq. ft.). Both of these figures would have to be adjusted for demolition costs, in order to arrive at a "true" land cost.

As far as the merits or lack thereof, of demolishing this streetscape, agreed, there is historical interest, and may be some architectural merit, in the existing buildings. The one right on the corner of St. Joseph (on the far right in the picture) is attractive, in particular. Having said that, I'm not sure how practical it is to preserve them. The fact is that the upper levels of many of these places are difficult or impossible to lease and have minimal value (anything above a second level, in particular, is virtually useless). Even at ground level, most of these properties do not attract "quality" tenants. In turn this leads to the impression that the street is a bit sketchy, as already mentioned in a previous post.

In some ways it's a bit of a wonder that so many of these old storefronts have survived this long on Yonge Street. It's a fact of land economics that, unless restrictive zoning is put in place, these old properties along Yonge will be under increasing pressure to change to higher-value and higher-density (hence, newer) uses.

I would not be sorry to see a new building here, perhaps with a nicely designed three-storey brick podium (emphasis) facing the street to acknowledge the existing nearby structures.
 
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i pray that these buildings will not be destroyed. this is really starting to piss me off.

one block over at st. joseph and bay, there is a huge parking lot! yonge is fine the way it is!
 
cdr108, to clarify, based on the purchase price of $10 million, my figure of $346.14 is per square foot of site area. As you point out, it is also equivalent to $22.73 per square foot of buildable floor area, which is a relevant indicator (assuming the project goes ahead at 440,000 sq. ft.). Both of these figures would have to be adjusted for demolition costs, in order to arrive at a "true" land cost.

As far as the merits or lack thereof, of demolishing this streetscape, agreed, there is historical interest, and may be some architectural merit, in the existing buildings. The one right on the corner of St. Joseph (on the far right in the picture) is attractive, in particular. Having said that, I'm not sure how practical it is to preserve them. The fact is that the upper levels of many of these places are difficult or impossible to lease and have minimal value (anything above a second level, in particular, is virtually useless). Even at ground level, most of these properties do not attract "quality" tenants. In turn this leads to the impression that the street is a bit sketchy, as already mentioned in a previous post.

In some ways it's a bit of a wonder that so many of these old storefronts have survived this long on Yonge Street. It's a fact of land economics that, unless restrictive zoning is put in place, these old properties along Yonge will be under increasing pressure to change to higher-value and higher-density (hence, newer) uses.

I would not be sorry to see a new building here, perhaps with a nicely designed three-storey brick podium (emphasis) facing the street to acknowledge the existing nearby structures.


Observer Walt, my comments weren't meant to be disrespectful towards you. Sorry if they came across that way.

I was just trying to point out the land cost based on the buildable floor area of the proposed design so it's not as expensive as many in the developing industry/RE market states it is when they say land is $$$ - not when they are building 15x the site area.
 
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cdr, no problem at all; I think both you and I knew what we were saying and we did not contradict each other. I clarified mainly because I thought some others here might not have followed the point.
 
As far as the merits or lack thereof, of demolishing this streetscape, agreed, there is historical interest, and may be some architectural merit, in the existing buildings. The one right on the corner of St. Joseph (on the far right in the picture) is attractive, in particular. Having said that, I'm not sure how practical it is to preserve them. The fact is that the upper levels of many of these places are difficult or impossible to lease and have minimal value (anything above a second level, in particular, is virtually useless). Even at ground level, most of these properties do not attract "quality" tenants. In turn this leads to the impression that the street is a bit sketchy, as already mentioned in a previous post.

Though on behalf of a "facadist" solution overcoming such barriers, note that behind BCE's Yonge/Wellington frontage is perfectly useable contemporary Class A office space.

And of course, further south among the existing upper-floor tenants in this overall block: Glad Day...
 
Check out the application below. This is for 10 residential units on the upper floors of the building 1 block north of this development @ Yonge & Irwin Ave. The building was recently renovated with a new facade and storefronts. Decent job considering the old building was kind of falling apart. I think it's the same guys who fixed up the decrepit block of buildings at Yonge & Breadalbane a few blocks south. This is a good idea to turn the upper floors into residential. It's a lot easier to rent these floors out as apartments than offices, adds density and helps alleviate the rental problem. I wouldn't mind seeing this all the way up and down Yonge St.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Application: Building Additions/Alterations Status: Issuance Pending

Location: 646 YONGE ST
TORONTO ON M4Y 2A6

Application#: 08 179293 BLD 00 BA Accepted Date: Jul 9, 2008

Project: Multiple Unit Building Multiple Projects

Description: Proposal to construct a partial 2nd floor and 3rd floor addtion, interior alterations, 10 new residential units, and renovate 1 existing residential unit. See Final & Binding - A0038/08TEY


BA Zoning Review Jul 16, 2008 Closed
BA Code Review Pt9 Jul 24, 2008 Closed
BA Fire Review Pt9 Jul 23, 2008 Closed
 
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Um, the fascadism on BA completely killed the sleekness of the tower. There are SOO MANY parking lots in this city that can be demolished, this is getting redicilous.
 
I would hate to see that shawarma place (Wrap & Grab) at the corner in the above pic disappear... I stop in there for a meal just about every time I visit the city!

3140362416_6a08fa79c2_o.jpg
 
i pray that these buildings will not be destroyed. this is really starting to piss me off.

one block over at st. joseph and bay, there is a huge parking lot! yonge is fine the way it is!

Um, the fascadism on BA completely killed the sleekness of the tower. There are SOO MANY parking lots in this city that can be demolished, this is getting redicilous.

But somebody else owns those parking lots, and those people will propose new buildings when they are ready. Meanwhile, you're both saying that owners of existing buildings should have to wait to propose redevelopment until all the surface parking lots in this city are gone?

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We don't live in an ideal world. BA Centre is and example of the system doing its best to preserve the heritage that was at its base. I don't think it ruins the sleekness of the tower. You can picture what the building would look like the entire way down if you look at 3 of the 4 sides of the building. I think it's quite interesting to look at.

In an ideal world, we could preserve all our heritage and build in ALL the right places. I also wish it were like that. But... it isn't.
 
Personally, I'd like to know where all these available parking lots are. Most that I can think of without some long standing commercial project or a recent (within 10 years) application are too small to be suitable.
 
Personally, I'd like to know where all these available parking lots are. Most that I can think of without some long standing commercial project or a recent (within 10 years) application are too small to be suitable.

i'll give you quite a few parking lots

as mentioned earlier, JUST ONE BLOCK WEST, at bay and st. joseph, there is a huge parking lot across from the U condos, right next to Bistro 990.

there are a few along wellesley in this aread as well.

around the city, there is an even more MASSIVE parking lot on queen in between church and sherbourne - huge! quite a few surround st lawrence, one of which will become Market Wharf. if you've ever walked around king, adelaide and richmond east of university, you will find parking police's ransom in lots. there is also a juicy one on mccaul just south of college that i hope u of t will develop into something typical with the institution's brilliance.

the list goes on and on...BOO FACADISM
 

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