Toronto Emerald Park Condos | 128.92m | 40s | Bazis | Rosario Varacalli

[sunnyraytoronto]

Last month in post# 1575, I mentioned commercial retail space should be handed off to new owners on Sept 15,... that seems to have happened on time. With exception of those with Yonge Street frontage (which still needs work), all other first floor retail seems to be handed off,.... they're all still empty shell stores, very PacificMall-like cubical stores,... none of the stores have started any further store specific renovation work - just bare white wall, cement floors without flooring, no signage, no shelves, no stock,... they're probably also surprised developer delivered on this date,... after so many delays,... About 12 of them have Store For Lease/Rent signage,.... and another 4 have name or type of future store,... sushi, teriyaki, cell-phone repair, etc,... yeah, very PacificMall-ish. What do you expect when Loblaw's T&T was supposed to be anchor tenant,.... after buying and waiting 7 years for developer to deliver,... some of these original buyer are probably still expecting T&T,....

After Metro bailed,... err, handed it off to one of their child company,... Adonis (Persian, middle eastern grocer) seems to have started doing work on their 2nd floor grocery store,.... I'd be really surprise if they actually open by year end. Heck, I'd be surprise if half the retail space on 1st floor have open store by year end! Mainly Asian investors renting out first floor retail space,... I'd expect it to look like WorldOnYonge for a while,... lots of empty cubical retail spaces for rent,... This type of retail space would have done a lot better on the other side of Yonge where there's more Asian condo residents,...

This first floor retail likely be a weird Asian PacificMall / Persian - MiddleEastern Market mix with a number of empty stores,...

Photo of open space with pylon is future food court area at west end of 1st floor retail. Second last photo shows one of 2 sloping hallways,... basically under WestTower,.... a bit weird to see sloping floors in a retail mall,... as you walk westward, it slopes upward with small flat terraces for each store front doors and then slopes upward again to next flat terrance in front of store front door,.... Last photo from rendering of retail space,.... (food court in atrium not happening)
http://thegalleriaatemeraldpark.com/pdf/brochure.pdf

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Third floor office space seems to consist of about 60 office-condo, each unit about 20'x20' to 30'x20',... definitely not large offices. Shell of most units seems to be complete,... individual owners need to renovate as they desire,...

First photo shows "Office lobby" - first floor elevator to 3rd floor office. Some office-condo has balcony,.... most don't,... some on inner part of building won't even have windows.

 

[Benito]

Thanks for the updates.

 

[Digger]

Gross... This building had such potential. I doubt any of these shoe box sized stores will stay open for more then a few months. The LCBO and Grocery store should both do well but this mall is gonna really suck in my opinion. I hope Im wrong but I highly doubt it.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Gross... This building had such potential. I doubt any of these shoe box sized stores will stay open for more then a few months. The LCBO and Grocery store should both do well but this mall is gonna really suck in my opinion. I hope Im wrong but I highly doubt it.

What? You think a store will actually open here???? Well, maybe a few,... but look north at WorldOnYonge (north of Steeles), with same type of PacificMall cubical stores open more than a year ago,... many of them are still looking for tenants,... and they have Spring (T&T copycat Chinese Supermarket) as their anchor tenant,.... here it's Adonis - Persian-Lebanese-MiddleEaster supermarket,.... but first floor retail space is almost all Chinese-Asian owners,....

You're right, these small PacificMall cubical stores will have a lot of turnover,... look at Tridel Development on Yonge north of Churchill-Church Ave where the Metro is,.... a lot of those stores are here this year and gone next year,... there's really no economy of scale with those small stores,..... many of those store owners are fresh immigrants, - required to invest a certain amount of their money into a Canadian business as part of their immigration process getting and staying in Canada,... once they get their Canadian passport - they don't care about the store anymore ,... and they move on to do whatever they really want to do in Canada,.....

 

[Adjei]

How is this an eyesore? This looks better than most of the unimaginative boxes going up in this city.

 

[taal]

What? You think a store will actually open here???? Well, maybe a few,... but look north at WorldOnYonge (north of Steeles), with same type of PacificMall cubical stores open more than a year ago,... many of them are still looking for tenants,... and they have Spring (T&T copycat Chinese Supermarket) as their anchor tenant,.... here it's Adonis - Persian-Lebanese-MiddleEaster supermarket,.... but first floor retail space is almost all Chinese-Asian owners,....

You're right, these small PacificMall cubical stores will have a lot of turnover,... look at Tridel Development on Yonge north of Churchill-Church Ave where the Metro is,.... a lot of those stores are here this year and gone next year,... there's really no economy of scale with those small stores,..... many of those store owners are fresh immigrants, - required to invest a certain amount of their money into a Canadian business as part of their immigration process getting and staying in Canada,... once they get their Canadian passport - they don't care about the store anymore ,... and they move on to do whatever they really want to do in Canada,.....

Yes but that tridel development, with many many small stores, always seems to have very few vacancies .. implying the model can work ... and its been years now ..

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Yes but that tridel development, with many many small stores, always seems to have very few vacancies .. implying the model can work ... and its been years now ..

Business model?,... what business model??? Those "foreign investors"/store-owners are taking a loss,... a loss they're willing to take,... in order to "buy" a Canadian passport. In the mean time, the money rich foreigners are supposed to invest in Canada to create jobs for Canadians,... are squandered on your so called business model. So who wins? The "foreign investor" who brought the Canadian passport,... if I could, I'd be selling mine on ebay, but it doesn't seem to be worth much these days!

 

[UD2]

One point. Opening a small store the size of a shoe box will not be adequate to receive a Canadian permanent resident status. Investments in Ontario that will result the investors receiving permanent residency usually totals more than 5 million dollars and require permanent employment of more than 5 Canadian residents.

So I question your source of information.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

They don't just open one,... they open multiple stores, and thus need to hire others. Also, these PacificMall cubical stores could be used as fillers for that $5million minimal,... just like padding Amazon purchase to reach minimal to get free shipping.

Funny part about how the Canadian government now sell off Canadian passports to foreigners,.... the vast majority of us Canadians in Canada now,... if we weren't in Canada now, we wouldn't even come close to qualifing to even be considered to enter Canada.

 

[mkerian]

Can we avoid discussion on the ethnicity/legality of potential owners for these stores? This thread has had multiple negative mentions of how small or 'Pacific Mall like' stores will be in place here. Enough, we get it.

The retail will soon open and we can discuss how good the stores are then once we actually see what's in place.

 

[Bill123]

Hi guys I've been lurking here for the past few months. I own a unit in the mall and would like to share some info. I go here at least once a week to check on progress.

First of all thx to sunnyray and all of you for providing pics and info on this project, saving me time from going there in person. Rly appreciate it.

Saw a contractor today. At the moment designs and floorplans are being approved by Bazis so renovations cant go through before that. A lot more contractors on the office floor suprisingly even though only 20% sold. Most of the ground floor stores are being rented out. Right now i am kind of bummed 4/14 of the foodcourt restaurants are japanese. Hopefully we dont get anymore of those. Need variety.

What I am more bummed about is the washroom. They took out both the big washrooms and put a unisex toilet room. 1 toilet for a mall of 75 stores. In the original plan they had a washroom with plenty of urinals/stalls for each sex. Hopefully they put some on the second floor so customers wont be pissed off.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Hi guys I've been lurking here for the past few months. I own a unit in the mall and would like to share some info. I go here at least once a week to check on progress.

First of all thx to sunnyray and all of you for providing pics and info on this project, saving me time from going there in person. Rly appreciate it.

Saw a contractor today. At the moment designs and floorplans are being approved by Bazis so renovations cant go through before that. A lot more contractors on the office floor suprisingly even though only 20% sold. Most of the ground floor stores are being rented out. Right now i am kind of bummed 4/14 of the foodcourt restaurants are japanese. Hopefully we dont get anymore of those. Need variety.

What I am more bummed about is the washroom. They took out both the big washrooms and put a unisex toilet room. 1 toilet for a mall of 75 stores. In the original plan they had a washroom with plenty of urinals/stalls for each sex. Hopefully they put some on the second floor so customers wont be pissed off.

Are you renting your retail space out or opening your own shop? When do you anticipate these first floor retail stores will be open?


I walk around the food court and every single restaurant name sign I saw have the word "sushi" on it!

Don't worry it's not really 4/14 stores in food court being Japanese,.... even when these store name say: Sushi, Sushi & Teriyaki, Sushi & Bibimbap, Sushi & whatever,.... basically all of them will be operated by Chinese,.... so it's Chinese making Japanese food,... usually for Chinese taste,... not authentic Japanese food,... Chinese people making so called Japanese food for Chinese taste,... well, I guess I know where I'm going near closing time,... to grab the discounted Japanese food,... err, I mean Chinese-sushi ;p

Attached is rendering of first floor retail space floor plan,... yes, large and separate women and men washrooms (lower right of food court). Are you sure they cut it down to just one unisex washroom?,... not to be confused with a Family/Handicap washroom? How is that even allowed???

Main difference that I've noticed so far are:
- escalators footprint are no longer slanted
- city make them swith TTC entrance lobby and stairs with elevator - so stairs and elevator are a bit closer to Yonge Street
- 2 elevator closer to food court south end moved to join 2 elevators north of TTC entrance
- that north-south mall hallway now seems to shift westward (row of stores to west was eliminated?) and stores with Yonge frontage which became longer?

A number of the first floor retail space owners I've talked to were aware Loblaw's T&T bailed,.... and Metro coming in,... but they don't know Metro now offloading to Adonis,...

With Metro there was supposed to be a Starbucks kiosk-market station,.... not sure if Starbucks will still be involved with Adonis going in as 2nd floor supermarket,.... but I've heard unconfirmed rumours of TimHorton - doesn't make sense since there's already TimHorton 2 blocks south at ESSO and also at Ultima Condo to north,... TimHorton in SheppardCentre,... SheppardCentre mall renovation time soon,.. thus, good time for EmeraldPark retailers to steal local customers from SheppardCentre,...

 

[Bill123]

I am opening my own place. Right now there are only coming soon signs for 5/75 stores which means 93% vacancy rate. Got handed keys 5 weeks ago. With what we have here is 1 store a week so estimate 75 weeks +1 month for renovations to fill up, so about 79 weeks. They might limit amount of contractors in there so it might be much more than 79 weeks. Again most of the signs are for rent/lease. With the subway, LCBO, Starbucks(???) and Adonis not finished yet, I don't think anyone with a brain will want to rent. There is no free parking there so most traffic in the mall will be from subway, across the street and the condo. Direct subway connection is down until Feb 2016 and winter is coming, so most mall traffic is going to come from condo and across the street.

Once the LCBO finishes we should see more and more traffic then once Adonis opens we will see a lot more. After this the ground floor will fill up quite quickly since when the client comes to see the unit they will see all the traffic and be sold easier. I also suspect that the renovation at Sheppard Center will tempt some stores there to move to Emerald Park. Maybe that jewellery store or the Bell store.

If you zoom in closely you can see an almost hand drawn toilet LOL. When I first got this updated floorplan I couldn't believe it. Then when I went to see my unit I opened that door and...it really was one toilet! I am still laughing about it. Just picture 75 store workers fighting over the toilet. Whats the average time of a tinkle? 5 min? It would take 6.25 hours if they went one after the other and this is not including the mall goers or if the store workers decided to do #2. That one toilet is going to affect food court business because some people like to clean their hands before they eat.

My thinking is they will put a bigger restroom on second floor and very clear signs that direct people there. Floor 3 has decent sized washrooms though. I do not have second floor plans.

I don't see any reason why Starbucks will not stay there. Adonis is pretty good, very well liked by Middle Eastern community and likely cheaper than Whole Foods.

Tim Hortons rumors are as old as 2 years ago.

I just hope this place does not turn out to be like World on Yonge or like Aura.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Even, I doubt vacancy rate is that high,.... you're assuming that just because space doesn't have coming soon sign (only 5) then it'll be for lease (only about 12-15 such signs),... some of the stores without signage could be owners getting ready to open their own stores,... I mean, you're about to open your own store - do you have coming soon sign? If so, you're either the cell phone hacking/repair place or one of the 4 (& counting) sushi places,...

There's a for sale sign for one of the stores in the food court,... likely brought in 2008 due to Loblaw's T&T being anchor,.. but can't sell until now because no one will buy unfinished retail space,...

I really don't understand why they would do this one store a week release,... the shell for all the 1st floor stores without Yonge frontage are already done waiting to be leased, renovated and stocked,...

That Feb 2016 TTC entrance opening date is very tentative,... and even if Bazis manage to finish that TTC entrance by then (cement all done, just need to add tiles, trimming, flooring and railing!),... you should still add about 6 more months for TTC inspection and corrections,...

Most of the local pedestrian trafffic are from Avondale Condos on other side of Yonge Street,... when they walk to Sheppard-Yonge TTC station they go via Proctor&Gamble building and thus bypass the Yonge-Annedale/Poyntz intersection,... the best way to get them into EmeraldPark retail space will be via food court with authentic, cheap, ready-made dishes,... since most condo folks are young single, couples, small families and don't want to spend too much time preparing their own meals.

EmeraldPark food court is in back forcing people to walk through 1st floor retail area to get to food court,.... that strategy didn't work at NorthYorkCityCentre so their food court was relocated,... Yonge frontage stores varies from 10-20 feet frontage with 20-50 feet depth, these are decent size stores (some much bigger than the PacificMall type cubical stores) that could easily attact customers but they don't really integrate well with the rest of the mall,... also missing a real mall entrance on Yonge Street,...

I wouldn't count on any of the retails stores from SheppardCentre to move in just because of their renovation. SheppardCentre retail space has been half empty for years and years,... they have lots of empty retail space for them to shift around any retailers during their renovation. And besides why would you want the SheppardCentre's junk jewellery or Bell store? Every Asian mall in the GTA has more than enough junk jewellery and cell phone/accessories stores,....

In your washroom time calculation, you're assuming each store will only have one store worker,... some will have two especially the food court places.

I don't have floor plans for second floor,... I suspect they were last changed early this year as there was a number of Committee of Adjustments meetings for Metro,.. it seems to me that Metro brought the entire second floor including the LCBO,.... the shell seems to be complete and Adonis contractors are probably working on the interior now,... thus, I haven't seen the 2nd floor yet,... Metro was supposed to be geared towards ready-made food and have an on-site food eating area,... Adonis seems to be keeping the ready-made food theme and on-site food eating area as there seems to be an outdoor patio as well,...

For the first floor retail, every single owner, sales and possible tenant seems to be Chinese,... Adonis execution will be key,... Adonis in Quebec caters to Persian & MiddleEastern, Adonis in Ontario is supposed to be more multi-cultural,... so far, Adonis in Scarborough & Mississauga caters to Persian, Lebanese, MiddleEastern,.. but carry some dry/can goods for other multi-cultural markets,... which is basically crap,... I mean, a real Italian guy wouldn't be caught dead eating tomato sauce from a can,.. they insist it has to be fresh ingredients simmer for X hours, just the way mama makes it! Adonis needs to carry fresh vegetables and other fresh ingredients for various ethnic markets.

Let's say Adonis opens by year end or early in new year,... just in time for Chinese New Year,... 1st floor Chinese retailers put on a Chinese New Years celebration and shows Adonis there is a local Chinese market,... would that encourage Adonis to carry more Chinese vegetables and authentic Chinese grocery items? Top 3 ethnicity in North York Centre are Korean (already well served with numerous H-Marts, M2M, and KoreanTowns), Persian (Persian stores along Yonge between Cummer & Steeles) and Chinese,.... Most local Chinese (including myself) end up going to Korean H-Marts or M2M to grab Korean food thinking well, at least it's Asian and close enough,.... but mostly we end up going out of the area for grocery shopping,... closest place are Finch & Leslie or WorldOnYonge-Spring or T&T,... there's nothing local!

Huge number of people going by on subway,... problem is getting them to get off the train to shop here,... WholeFoodsMarket has done a terrible job of that and thus, the store usually has more staff than customers.

You should also keep an eye on the 4800 Yonge development (southwest corner of Yonge & Sheppard),.... zoned for all office (Nestle phase2 many years ago) but Menkes now proposing mixed use with mainly condo, some main floor retail and maybe some office,.... there's been some feelers that city have rejected,... Menkes formalizing proposal and will likely be rejected by city again,... likely end up at OMB.