Toronto Paintbox | ?m | 26s | Daniels | Diamond Schmitt

Most "news" these days is about getting people riled up, not informing them in a thought-out and nuanced way.
 
asiancolossus said:
I'd like to find out the attitudes of the residents these days with the rash of shootings last month. I know these were targeted, but it certainly doesn't do morale any good I'm sure. Plus I think there is a perception that even though these people were targets, people probably don't want to risk being hit by a stray bullet happening to be at the wrong time at the wrong place. To add insult to injury, it seems like the press constantly publishes articles calling Regent Park revitalization a massive failure as there is so much fear in the community. It would be good to know what the real situation is there and if residents are fearful to leave their homes after dark. Until people there feel good about this revitalization, the reputation will still be in the doldrums I think.
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Can you point out which press have called Regent Park a massive failure? I'd like to read all these articles. (because I haven't seen any)

A massive failure? First of all, it's not a "massive failure" in terms of sales. It's a massive success. Compare it to what Chicago is trying to do with Cabrini Green and it's amazingly successful. Is it successful in getting rid of crime? Well, that's not so easy. That will probably take years. Why, did you think people would just change over night? If you did, well you were sadly mistaken. You obviously don't know much about human nature. Humans are a lot harder to change than buildings. It will take time. Hell, the neighbourhood isn't even nealry completed and some people are already trying to paint it as a "massive failure." Shouldn't we at least wait until it's finished and people have had a chance to adjust to a more mixed enviornment? Sheesh!

In terms of making the area more attractive, it's a success. In terms of putting eyes on the street and making it seem safer, it's a success. In terms of bringing sucessful retail to the street, it's a success. In terms of giving people a nicer place to live, it's a success. In terms of mixing the uses (aquatic Centre, Arts Centre, Christian Centre, Community Centre, Central Park, Retail strips) of the district, it looks like it will succeed.
So we have one area, crime, (murder) where it hasen't been successful yet, and you seem to think that makes it a massive failure? If so, your focus is much too limited. There are many ways to judge success. How about urbanity, design and condo sales? SUCCESS!!!

Oh, and all the murders, seem to have taken place in the old parts, that haven't been redeveloped yet. You do realize, it's only the beginning, not the end. Don't be such a pesimist.
 
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Torontovibe said:
Can you point out which press have called Regent Park a massive failure? I'd like to read all these articles. (because I haven't seen any)

A massive failure? First of all, it's not a "massive failure" in terms of sales. It's a massive success. Compare it to what Chicago is trying to do with Cabrini Green and it's amazingly successful. Is it successful in getting rid of crime? Well, that's not so easy. That will probably take years. Why, did you think people would just change over night? If you did, well you were sadly mistaken. You obviously don't know much about human nature. Humans are a lot harder to change than buildings. It will take time. Hell, the neighbourhood isn't even nealry completed and some people are already trying to paint it as a "massive failure." Shouldn't we at least wait until it's finished and people have had a chance to adjust to a more mixed enviornment? Sheesh!

In terms of making the area more attractive, it's a success. In terms of putting eyes on the street and making it seem safer, it's a success. In terms of bringing sucessful retail to the street, it's a success. In terms of giving people a nicer place to live, it's a success. In terms of mixing the uses (aquatic Centre, Arts Centre, Christian Centre, Community Centre, Central Park, Retail strips) of the district, it looks like it will succeed.
So we have one area, crime, (murder) where it hasen't been successful yet, and you seem to think that makes it a massive failure? If so, your focus is much too limited. There are many ways to judge success. How about urbanity, design and condo sales? SUCCESS!!!

Oh, and all the murders, seem to have taken place in the old parts, that haven't been redeveloped yet. You do realize, it's only the beginning, not the end. Don't be such a pesimist.
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I'm playing devils advocate here, I personally love the concept of the revitalization. I'm just saying what is out there, and to provide a more balanced perspective of the good and the bad. I know it takes years. And I don't like these articles prematurely announcing failure before they've given it a chance.

Before you attack me, make sure you know where I'm coming from. I don't really appreciate the tone of your message to be honest with you. I present an opposing view and you go on A VERY PERSONAL attack. Not very classy.
I won't make any more comments regarding this project. God forbid I mention anything slightly negative.
 
asiancolossus said:
I'm playing devils advocate here, I personally love the concept of the revitalization. I'm just saying what is out there, and to provide a more balanced perspective of the good and the bad. I know it takes years. And I don't like these articles prematurely announcing failure before they've given it a chance.

Before you attack me, make sure you know where I'm coming from. I don't really appreciate the tone of your message to be honest with you. I present an opposing view and you go on A VERY PERSONAL attack. Not very classy.
I won't make any more comments regarding this project. God forbid I mention anything slightly negative.
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He did make a really good point though, I have yet to seen a single article (in person interview - there have been a few with cbc radio and Toronto housing) calling it a massive failure - or a failure period, so I'm not sure where you got that impression.

They did ask, quite repeatedly, however, if Toronto housing felt this would jeopardize the commerical viability of future phases i.e. to sell condos which is the driving economic factor here. They, of course, said no, but only time will tell.
 
taal said:
He did make a really good point though, I have yet to seen a single article (in person interview - there have been a few with cbc radio and Toronto housing) calling it a massive failure - or a failure period, so I'm not sure where you got that impression.

They did ask, quite repeatedly, however, if Toronto housing felt this would jeopardize the commerical viability of future phases i.e. to sell condos which is the driving economic factor here. They, of course, said no, but only time will tell.
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I've been reading articles like the ones in the Globe and Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...park-revitalization-crumbling/article1801927/

I'd say this was a pretty negative inflammatory article about Regent Park, and this was written before the recent shootings. Yes perhaps massive failure was an exaggeration on my part, but pretty negative nonetheless.

Like I said, I don't appreciate someone attacking me PERSONALLY for presenting another viewpoint. I find it totally inappropriate. This is a forum after all, and as far as I know, we still should respect each other in these forums without making someone feel like shit for expressing a different opinion. Ironically if you read my previous posts on the board, I am very pro-Regent Park revitalization. I even posted some pics of their beautiful townhomes.

I really have no energy to be arguing here.
 
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taal said:
He did make a really good point though, I have yet to seen a single article (in person interview - there have been a few with cbc radio and Toronto housing) calling it a massive failure - or a failure period, so I'm not sure where you got that impression.

They did ask, quite repeatedly, however, if Toronto housing felt this would jeopardize the commerical viability of future phases i.e. to sell condos which is the driving economic factor here. They, of course, said no, but only time will tell.
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I'm not saying you can't be critical of development but can't you at least give the place a chance? Things don't happen over night. Why be such a pesimist about something that could potentially be great for the city? And what press did you see or hear that called it a massive failure? I seriously would like to read them. I really don't think that's a fair assesment at all. Murder happens all over the city, even in places like Yorkville. A few murders should not be enough to label an area that way.

Oh, and sorry if it seemed like a personal attack. I didn't mean it to be. I just get tired of all the negitivity on the net. I think this is one of the areas that Toronto is doing things right and it should be commended for it. I'm sure it will eventually pay off bigtime and transform a huge area from a no go zone, to a let's go zone. (just my personal opinion)

I'm telling you guys, good things are coming for the Downtown East.
 
Torontovibe said:
I'm telling you guys, good things are coming for the Downtown East.
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I understand what your getting at but I don't like when I hear this comment genearlly.
Just in the sense that there are already good things in Downtown East - I'm willing to argue that the st. Lawrence market / King east area is one of the nicest in Toronto on many fronts! King East more so over the last 5/10 years with all the development.


Anyway, this is bound to continue, it's being forced on the area with the expansion of King East (it's moving closer to the distillery district area - and then there's the distillery district as well). All of this and I haven't even mentioned the waterfront development yet. Which is huge on it's own right.

Downtown east north : ) i.e. the part around Bloor - is adding more residents every year with the huge number of condos that have been being built and are built already.


The one area though that has yet to see much in the way of change and I don't think will for the next little while is the middle section of downtown east (Regent park is helping this out a lot though - but everything around it is relatively stagnate.

I think it'll be a while until this area changes.

I think
 
My long term hope is in 20+ years, this will spread to the rest of the middle east core and revitalize the area. So we already know the lower east core is great i.e. the St. Lawerence -> distillery district and now even further south / east with the waterfront revitalization. The upper east east is seeing an influx of condos and there are already some nice patches of low rise areas (cabbagetown and the like).
 
The area bounded by Richmond, Jarvis, Parliament and College is pretty much as poor and decrepit as it always has been and is one of downtown's two tumours (the other being the increasingly large hospital district bounded by Bay, Dundas, College and University). Somehow, Sherbourne has managed to remain undesirable for 70 consecutive years.
 
Hipster Duck said:
The area bounded by Richmond, Jarvis, Parliament and College is pretty much as poor and decrepit as it always has been and is one of downtown's two tumours (the other being the increasingly large hospital district bounded by Bay, Dundas, College and University). Somehow, Sherbourne has managed to remain undesirable for 70 consecutive years.
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Yep that's the square! I'd say it used to go even further north closer to bloor but that's changed. Also, if your old enough you may remember King east was rundown to a certain degree. I just love King east now, it's really one of the nicest streets in terms of built form - it doesn't have too much in the way of street life compared to others in Toronto but it looks great! - I think the area right around the disterly (to the west) is going to get a lot of development over the next 5-10 years and we can call this whole southern stretch *complete* so to speek.
 
taal said:
Yep that's the square! I'd say it used to go even further north closer to bloor but that's changed. Also, if your old enough you may remember King east was rundown to a certain degree. I just love King east now, it's really one of the nicest streets in terms of built form - it doesn't have too much in the way of street life compared to others in Toronto but it looks great! - I think the area right around the disterly (to the west) is going to get a lot of development over the next 5-10 years and we can call this whole southern stretch *complete* so to speek.
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There doesn't seem to be much in the area, lots of room for development, if they developed more retail there, it would provide some continuity to Regent Park to the east. Its all one big puzzle piece!
 
The Regent Park Arts Centre & The Paintbox Condominium beside it. (I think)
[video=youtube;Z8dg6bh-ji0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8dg6bh-ji0[/video]
 
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Thanks guys. I'm really curious about the Arts Centre. If you notice, in the video, I included 2 renderings and both are quite different. I think the least interesting of the two, is the newer version, which of course, means the cheapening of the design.

I'm also curious if the condo will go beside the Arts Centre (west of it) or on top of it, which some UTers have reported. I'm pretty sure the condo is beside it. Both rendings do not show the condo on top of the 3 floors of the Arts Centre. I believe the condo will be called Paintbox. Wonder where they came up with that name? lol
 
Demolition of the highrises is underway today. They are crumbling fast, get your cameras down there!
 
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