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Toronto, Capital of North America?

No, desirability argument can be used for one particular country, but you can't apply it across countries. Therefore, Toronto being more expensive than Chicago means nothing for desirability. Why? Americans who don't find Chicago desirable can simply move to LA or NYC, but those who don't like Toronto can't simply move to Chicago, because it is in a different country. There is something called "immigration" not so different from say a Portuguese moving to the US.

What's immigration? You drive to the Ambassador Bridge, tell them you're going through Michigan to Manitoba and the next day you're in LA. My best friend did this six years ago and he hasn't come back.

But if we're talking legally working in the US, you are forgetting the NAFTA visa, which lets Canadians move to and work in the US without immigrating, if they are in the right field. It's not like someone from Portugal at all. A relative of mine is working as an ER nurse in South Carolina right now. She got the offer at a job recruitment fair in Toronto and had the visa two weeks later.
 
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What's immigration? You drive to the Ambassador Bridge, tell them you're going through Michigan to Manitoba and the next day you're in LA. My best friend did this six years ago and he hasn't come back.

But if we're talking legally working in the US, you are forgetting the NAFTA visa, which lets Canadians move to and work in the US without immigrating, if they are in the right field. It's not like someone from Portugal at all. A relative of mine is working as an ER nurse in South Carolina right now. She got the offer at a job recruitment fair in Toronto and had the visa two weeks later.

true, but there are only a handful of professions qualified under TN visa. I would say 90% of Canadians don't qualify for that.
Additionally, TN is only a temp work visa and has to be renewed every three years. The border official can deny it once he thinks you are using it too many times as a de facto permanent card. You eventually have you work under H1B or other working visa like everyone else if you want to be a permanent resident.

so yes, Canadians are still foreigners in the US and are subject to a lot of restriction when it come to work and living status, not unlike everyone else.
 
Just a theory...

If we take NYC out of the equation (because it is in a league of its own) is it possible that lower housing costs in other major cities like Chicago could be a result of a more extensive subway/transit system? In other words, people in Toronto are paying a premium to be on or near the scant mass transit system we have and so it is a basic economic issue of low supply and high demand, whch may artificially drive up the cost of housing.
 
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Just a theory...

If we take NYC out of the equation (because it is in a league of its own) is it possible that lower housing costs in other major cities like Chicago could be a result of a more extensive subway/transit system? In other words, people in Toronto are paying a premium to be on or near the scant mass transit system we have and so it is a basic economic issue of low supply and high demand, whch may artificially drive up the cost of housing.

I don't think so. Housing costs in the suburbs are high as well, with their scant mass transit. The high housing prices in Toronto is more a function of wealthy foreign investors deciding to park their money in Toronto real estate as it is a safe investment at this time.
 
Agreed, but perhaps there is more than one reason? Does the impact of foreign investment account for the half million price tag of a 900 SF semi-detached bungalow near the Danforth for example (and one that has no land and needs massive renovation, to boot)?
 
Agreed, but perhaps there is more than one reason? Does the impact of foreign investment account for the half million price tag of a 900 SF semi-detached bungalow near the Danforth for example (and one that has no land and needs massive renovation, to boot)?

Hmmm, it's hard to discern just what kind of impact foreign investment has on real estate price appreciation, but I'm sure it's substantial.

In the Danforth case you mention, no, it's unlikely that a foreign millionaire would want to park his assets in a 90 year old handyman's special, but it could be that people who value urban living are excluded from buying into a downtown condo development where he has bought ten units, so they settle for this house on the Danforth. Another, perhaps more plausible, explanation might be that there is a demand for inner city living that is not being met by two factors:

(1) our urban fabric - the part of the city that is urban, walkable and interesting - is not expanding. We are building a lot of infill within it, but we are not expanding the area of the region that is covered by urban fabric.

(2) the kinds of housing people want; stuff that isn't a shoebox condo (bought by the aforementioned millionaire, not to live in, but to park his rainy day funds), and is primarily ground-oriented and has a few rooms for a growing family - is in incredibly short supply, and nobody is building any more. The reason they may not be building any more is because the economics of land don't justify building semi-detached houses in the central city, when you could put up a highrise filled with 1BR units on the same space. On the other hand, if we expanded condition (1), we might actually be able to build these kinds of units in the neighbourhoods people want. Alas, builders north of Lawrence avenue have not figured out how to build non auto-centric housing (even if it's high density) and, more importantly, non auto-centric retail strips that people who live in high density areas could feasibly walk to. In some cases, we have built the worst of both worlds: high density residential, but strip malls and power centres beside them, guaranteeing that a large number of people in a small area have to take the car, causing large congestion levels and undesirable neighbourhoods.
 
Agreed, but perhaps there is more than one reason? Does the impact of foreign investment account for the half million price tag of a 900 SF semi-detached bungalow near the Danforth for example (and one that has no land and needs massive renovation, to boot)?

Real estate prices are market driven. If the overall market is up, everyone will price accordingly. Also one can't stop a person from being stupid with their money. There are a lot of properties that are overpriced, and people buying into the fix and flip hype.

I agree, there are a lot of factors that influence real estate prices. After all, it is still a product that people purchase based on features: proximity to the core, mass transit, parks, schools, libraries, demographics etc.

Toronto could very well be capital of North America as it's location is geographically strategic. Little risk of an earthquake, hurricane, tornado, crippling snow or ice storms (no jokes please). Abundant fresh water and energy sources. Major airport and close to other major midwest and Atlantic ports.
 
Sorry friend but you can throw in all the variables you want....they just factor in a person's decision-making process and the desirability of a locale. Why complicate the matter? I know there are reasons why one place may be more desirable than another....I never said desirability was a stand-alone and abstract concept bereft of all and any contributing factors, I was merely simplifying the reason why one locale may be more expensive than another to its most base form which is supply and demand which is a direct function of desirability.

And why are you making blanket statements about all Canadian cities? We're talking about Toronto here. I'm fairly certain Halifax is cheaper than Chicago, for example.
 
And why are you making blanket statements about all Canadian cities? We're talking about Toronto here. I'm fairly certain Halifax is cheaper than Chicago, for example.

you need to compare Halifax with an American of similar size, which is 400k. Raleigh, NC or Cleveland, OH, for example.
Chicago is three leagues above.
 
I don't think so. Housing costs in the suburbs are high as well, with their scant mass transit. The high housing prices in Toronto is more a function of wealthy foreign investors deciding to park their money in Toronto real estate as it is a safe investment at this time.

I don't agree. Even before the financial crisis, such as in 06/07, Toronto real estate is considerably higher than Chicago.
 
Guess I'm part of the brain drain. As a 30 yr old professional, born & raised in Toronto, I moved to LA for work (multinational corp) 2.5 years ago. From my experience so far, I'll find it hard to return back as the advantages far outweigh the cons. My income tax rate is about the same (yay california!)...however the dollar definitely goes a lot further down here. Retail taxes are lower, clothing and other wants are cheaper, eating out is cheaper on average, gas is cheaper, and so on and so forth. Rental prices are comparable though (if you stay on the highly desirable westside of LA...in comparison to downtown TO). The biggest factor though is there just is a LOT more capital flowing through here, and that makes a HUGE difference if your above average and really want to make a good living for yourself. Plus business risk taking is part of the US culture, whereas it feels like our Canadian clients are penny pinching grandmas. Oh and winters in a tshirt. Enough said.

I think Toronto still has quite the growing up to do - definitely excited to see where it is 15-20 years from now.
 
Guess I'm part of the brain drain. As a 30 yr old professional, born & raised in Toronto, I moved to LA for work (multinational corp) 2.5 years ago. From my experience so far, I'll find it hard to return back as the advantages far outweigh the cons. My income tax rate is about the same (yay california!)...however the dollar definitely goes a lot further down here. Retail taxes are lower, clothing and other wants are cheaper, eating out is cheaper on average, gas is cheaper, and so on and so forth. Rental prices are comparable though (if you stay on the highly desirable westside of LA...in comparison to downtown TO). The biggest factor though is there just is a LOT more capital flowing through here, and that makes a HUGE difference if your above average and really want to make a good living for yourself. Plus business risk taking is part of the US culture, whereas it feels like our Canadian clients are penny pinching grandmas. Oh and winters in a tshirt. Enough said.

I think Toronto still has quite the growing up to do - definitely excited to see where it is 15-20 years from now.

I heard LA is the shit. I wanna visit sometime.
 

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