Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

muller877 said:
I use to live right by the airport...probably the closest to the noise of any one. And guess what? I didn't mind it (I moved out in anticipation of the streetcar construction). I find it amusing that everyone insists that a great waterfront and a working airport are mutually exclusive. It isn't.
Click to expand...

Guess what? Sound doesn't work like you think it works. Proximity isn't the only variable to consider. I live on King West near Spadina and the sound of planes revving up for take off, reverse thrust braking and engine noise at night, every night around 11pm is very loud and very frequent and often terribly distracting as I work from home or when I need to be in bed early.

I've come to accept the noise as a part of living in a city but it does grind my gears that we were promised that the airport would operate quietly when Porter proposed changing it from a mildly used landing strip for small aircraft to a full fledged regional airport. It is not quiet and increasing the size of the airport and the landing strip to fit more passengers and more flights would only worsen this, jets or not.

Deluce made the wrong bets and got himself into a corner from which he cannot get out. As a former fan of the company and a former VIPorter card holder, I happily anticipate its demise.
 
MetroMan said:
Guess what? Sound doesn't work like you think it works. Proximity isn't the only variable to consider. I live on King West near Spadina and the sound of planes revving up for take off, reverse thrust braking and engine noise at night, every night around 11pm is very loud and very frequent and often terribly distracting as I work from home or when I need to be in bed early.
Click to expand...

I live near the Eaton Centre, and the noise from cars and people, especially when there is an event, can be terribly distracting too. Plus the St Mikes' helicopters etc. Yet that's just part of downtown living.
You live all the way at King/Spadina, and the airport bothers you even? Jesus. That explains more what a whiner you are than how loud the airport is. I have a friend who lives at City Place west of Spadina south of Front and never heard him complain. Maybe it is time to move to the burbs?
 
ksun said:
I live near the Eaton Centre, and the noise from cars and people, especially when there is an event, can be terribly distracting too. Plus the St Mikes' helicopters etc. Yet that's just part of downtown living.
You live all the way at King/Spadina, and the airport bothers you even? Jesus. That explains more what a whiner you are than how loud the airport is. I have a friend who lives at City Place west of Spadina south of Front and never heard him complain. Maybe it is time to move to the burbs?
Click to expand...

Indeed, I live at Fleet and Fort York, just northwest of the airport, much closer than King and Spadina, I have never once at any time heard ANY noise from the airport while inside my building. If, living this close to it, I can't hear anything, frankly I'm left to think that everybody complaining is either whining/making it up, or they live right next to it (in which case, that's their decision, not porter's fault).
 
ksun said:
I live near the Eaton Centre, and the noise from cars and people, especially when there is an event, can be terribly distracting too. Plus the St Mikes' helicopters etc. Yet that's just part of downtown living.
You live all the way at King/Spadina, and the airport bothers you even? Jesus. That explains more what a whiner you are than how loud the airport is. I have a friend who lives at City Place west of Spadina south of Front and never heard him complain. Maybe it is time to move to the burbs?
Click to expand...

Maybe you're just not smart enough to realize that wind carries sound and that to me it might sound like there's a jet airplane outside my window but to my neighbour a few doors down, he might not hear a thing.

It has nothing to do with whining. It's about what was promised. Nobody suggested building a major regional airport in the city when Porter signed the agreement allowing it to operate at Billy Bishop. In fact, they promised the opposite. Deluce promised with his fingers crossed behind his back that he would never fly jets, and that Porter would only be a small business airline. What they've become and what they want to become is completely different than what was promised.
 
I live across from the airport; I have a great view of the terminal, the runways and so on. Take off/landings aren't terribly loud, but the maintenance run-ups are brutal. Also, the small planes and helicopters are much louder than the Porter and AC planes. When I'm at Amsterdam Brew House, however, plane noise is much more obvious. People in the Beach area talk about the noise there as well, although when I'm down that way I don't hear it. It's not just the airport, it's the flight path that brings noise.

That said, noise is the least of the issues associated with an expanded airport.
 
Another example of how sound is experienced differently in different places: I walk my dog on Queens Quay regularly and sometimes we sit at Harbourfront watching these large planes glide past and land with just barely an audible sound of their reverse thrusters when they touch down. Super quiet. But then you have situations where the one when I was sitting at a concert at Harbroufront, the band Woodhands were playing. Their music is very loud. But at some point during every song, the music would be cut through by a loud rumble of reverse thrusters or a plane revving up to take off. I remember clearly the band joking about "those fucking planes".

That's a situation where an industrial use of the waterfront was impinging on the enjoyment of a public asset for which we've invested billions of dollars into. It's a direct result of increased activity and larger airplanes brought in by Porter where it didn't exist when the waterfront revitalization was proposed and public money put into it. Yes, we have a right to complain because this is precisely what was promised by Porter would not happen.
 
Last edited:
MetroMan said:
But at some point during every song, the music would be cut through by a loud rumble of reverse thrusters or a plane revving up to take off. I remember clearly the band joking about "those fucking planes".
Click to expand...
Another reason they need to switch to quiet jets, rather than noisy smelly diesels ... I mean turboprops.

Though is it that loud in the pedestrian tunnel?
 
MetroMan said:
That's a situation where an industrial use of the waterfront was impinging on the enjoyment of a public asset for which we've invested billions of dollars into. It's a direct result of increased activity and larger airplanes brought in by Porter where it didn't exist when the waterfront revitalization was proposed and public money put into it. Yes, we have a right to complain because this is precisely what was promised by Porter would not happen.
Click to expand...

Neither Porter nor any other resident of any city anywhere has ever 'promised' not to interfere with any other use of the city at any time. The nature of living in a city is that we all step on each others' toes. It only becomes an issue when the toe-stepping is unreasonable in the context.

Look at the situation you just described. You were at a concert that you describe as "very loud." Guess what, your concert and your enjoyment was directly interfering with everyone else around you who didn't want to hear that concert. You're complaining about a noise that intermittently interfered with a very loud noise you enjoyed. It's bizarrely hypocritical.

Part of living in a city is the reasonable expectation that you will never have total tranquility. That Porter/YTZ occasionally interfered somewhere is not proof that it's unreasonable.
 
the airport isn't always loud. like pink lady said, at times you can hardly notice it.

however, when it's loud, it's really loud. and something that's loud from 1000 feet away is much greater in power and scope than something that's loud from 100 feet away (like a loud music concert). the airport certainly is much louder than other areas of toronto i've lived in. and the noise isn't like normal city din or gardiner white noise, it's like an ambulance siren every ten minutes.

that's not the problem to me though. the problem is that when the noise is particularly loud and you file a complaint, the port authority tells you to eff off. when you suggest that it'd be a huge gesture of understanding to the neighborhood to take a small break during the occasional music garden concert, they tell you to eff off. when you say that they shouldn't be digging a hole for a tunnel early on a sunday morning, they tell you to eff off. when you tell them that engine run-ups are deafening, they tell you to eff off.

if i thought that the port authority was a good neighbor and were honestly considerate of my interests, i'd consider an amendment to the tripartite agreement. however, as it is, the port authority can eff off.
 
mettle said:
the airport isn't always loud. like pink lady said, at times you can hardly notice it.

however, when it's loud, it's really loud. and something that's loud from 1000 feet away is much greater in power and scope than something that's loud from 100 feet away (like a loud music concert). the airport certainly is much louder than other areas of toronto i've lived in. and the noise isn't like normal city din or gardiner white noise, it's like an ambulance siren every ten minutes.

that's not the problem to me though. the problem is that when the noise is particularly loud and you file a complaint, the port authority tells you to eff off. when you suggest that it'd be a huge gesture of understanding to the neighborhood to take a small break during the occasional music garden concert, they tell you to eff off. when you say that they shouldn't be digging a hole for a tunnel early on a sunday morning, they tell you to eff off. when you tell them that engine run-ups are deafening, they tell you to eff off.

if i thought that the port authority was a good neighbor and were honestly considerate of my interests, i'd consider an amendment to the tripartite agreement. however, as it is, the port authority can eff off.
Click to expand...

To be fair when the most vocal of you neighbors call for your outright closure the relationship would already be a little antagonistic.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top