Toronto Beyond The Sea | ?m | 44s | Empire | Richmond Architects

^ I guess people hear the ads on the radio and just want to go "Somewhere, Beyond the Sea." But seriously what are the prices like? it could just be better priced than some other projects in the area.
 
Prices in Beyond the Sea averaged $358psf - All 206 suites have sold as previously reported by Observer Walt. The project opened at a VIP event on June 12 and all units were sold out two days later with no public opening. The launch of the second 36 floor tower has moved up and should be fairly quick given the buzz that the first tower generated.
 
Unbelieveable

http://680news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20070726_074657_5920


Dozens line up overnight to purchase condos
Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 07:46 AM
By: Carl Hanstke


Toronto - Prospective buyers, including realtors, camped out at Park Lawn Road and Lakeshore Boulevard, to be among the first to buy new condominiums that have yet to be built - a sign of the real estate times.

More than 100 spent the night outside the Beyond the Sea condominium complex, developed by Empire Communities, camped with blankets and lawnchairs. Some arrived as early as 9 a.m. Wednesday morning.

They are hoping to snag one of the almost 300 units, which go on sale at 6 p.m. tonight. However, they won't be able to move in for at least three years.

Some people told 680News it's well-worth the wait for such prime real estate.

Real estate agents were among the ones who waited and said that since the Toronto condo market is so hot right now, campouts like these are not uncommon. One said this was her third time.

Phase one of development in June sold out in one day, so no one wanted to miss out on phase two, which is scheduled to completed in 2010.
 
I live right around the street from this development. I must say I can't wait to see it go up. It'll replace a big scar on the Humber Bay strip.
 
The Humber Bay strip, and in fact all of south Etobicoke, is hot hot hot recently.

I don't think we have a thread for it, but the development at Lake Shore and 41st, called "Aquaview", is now selling. It will be 16 storeys, 186 units, designed by Kirkor. Prices are in the range of $320 to $350 per square foot, including one underground parking space per unit.
 
Brokers wait for piece of condo action (Toronto Star)
Tempers flared yesterday as some waited 24 hours for the chance to buy into a hot housing development

July 27, 2007
Thulasi Srikanthan
and Tony Wong
business Reporters

About 150 real estate agents and brokers camped out, some for more than 24 hours, for the chance to buy units at a much-hyped waterfront condo in a waiting game some called "survival of the fittest."

Tempers were volatile and personalities clashed as some agents tried to scare off others to get a piece of the west-end Beyond the Sea condominium project.

"It's a battle," said Sofia Hassan, a sales representative for Royal LePage who said her brother was almost chased out when he seat-sat for her. Agents were looking to make quick commissions on the condo units, arguing buyers could hope for healthy gains in the value of the properties in coming years.

The camp-out, an increasingly common sight at some well marketed condo projects, is a sign that Toronto's real estate market is not slowing down even as the housing recession deepens in the U.S. Analysts yesterday predicted an economic slump for the rest of the year and stock markets suffered another nasty pullback.

At the Beyond The Sea project, many spent the night asleep on lawn chairs, cellphones by their sides, or subsisting on diets of coffee, doughnuts and pizza.

The development, near Lake Shore Blvd. W. and Parklawn Rd., is set to open in 2010 and has been heavily advertised. Prices for the phase two project range from $169,900 to around $1 million.

"We are going to take home $20,000 for 24 hours," said Hassan, referring to commissions. She started camping out at 9:30 Wednesday morning for yesterday's opening.

"Rapidly declining affordability in the housing market – due to both price increases and rising interest rates – has pushed more buyers into the condo market," said Douglas Porter, an economist with BMO Capital Markets. "And while Toronto's economy is only so-so, persistently strong population growth is also providing underlying support."

While overall home building activity has been softening in Toronto since the peak in 2003, Porter noted condominium construction is still holding up well.

According to the latest figures from Urbanation, a quarterly that tracks the high-rise market in the GTA, the first quarter of 2007 saw condo resales hit a record at 3,100, the highest ever for that quarter.

Some 3,400 new apartments sold in the first quarter, making it the third highest number on record.

"The market is still buoyant on the high rise side, and it has been amazingly resilient," said economist Peter Norman, vice-president of housing analysts Clayton Research Associates Inc.

Jane Renwick, executive vice-president of Urbanation, said once second quarter sales are added in, condo sales in the Toronto census area are on track to beat the first six months of last year.

One reason for what's being seen as a much stronger second quarter is that only eight projects were released in the first quarter, compared to 35 in the second, said Renwick.

"There was some pent up demand which was met in the second quarter by some really high quality projects," said Renwick.

Still, despite strong condo sales, some analysts have been warning that over the past year or so the market has seen an influx of investors – buyers who either plan to flip units immediately for possible gain, or rent them out. Estimates of investor activity range from 25 per cent to 40 per cent at some buildings. One big risk is that a downturn in the market can cause investors to panic and start dumping their units, causing a price drop.

"Investors are out in force, sowing their own future disappointment" said Toronto analyst Will Dunning in a recent report.

In the meantime, lineups like those seen yesterday have not been unusual in the hot condo market.

Agents lined up for up to three days in June to purchase a unit at Concord Park Place in the Leslie St. and Sheppard Ave. area, says Dennis Au-Yeung, CFO for Concord Pacific Group Inc., one of Canada's largest high-rise builders.

"It was our first project outside downtown, so there was a lot of demand,"said Au-Yeung. "The market in Toronto has been strong."

That's something Michael Yang, a sales rep with AimHome, has seen first hand. Yang, who received the elusive first ticket yesterday after waiting 28 hours, once was involved in a 48-hour condo camp-out.

"There is a lot of demand, especially for nice ones," he said.

The lineup allowed agents to do their work while they waited and even catch up on reading.

Remax sales rep Jason Hughes got a chance to finish the final book in the Harry Potter series during his 25-hour wait.

Hughes said demand for condos has been helped along by the increasing congestion downtown.

"The roads are getting worse, and people are getting tired of the commute," he said.

While affordable projects are usually the beneficiaries of lineups not seen since the '80s, even high-end properties have seen the phenomenon.

When the ultra-luxury Ritz Carlton Toronto property went on sale two years ago, several agents slept in the sales centre to be first in line for the suites.

Though an overnight camp-out is not the norm at condo sites, it is common for developers to hand out a number to those in line so they can come back at another time, said Renwick.

"That's usually quite common and it helps with the traffic flow so the staff don't become deluged."
 
I bet the same agents and brokers were the ones predicting the sky would fall if the city implemented its land transfer tax and got enough lightweights to vote with the right-wing. These are the ones that are helping to drive the prices up.

"We are going to take home $20,000 for 24 hours," said Hassan, referring to commissions. She started camping out at 9:30 Wednesday morning for yesterday's opening.

They ought to be ashamed of themselves. They're legal scalpers. (But I bet few of these people have shame. Look at Brad Lamb!)
 
I agree. I think there should be some sort of regulation. Every single new project that seems to come out has these presales even before public launch and by that time, all the affordable lower end units are bought up by agents looking to make a quick profit. Unless your agent is in the loop, you don't have access.
 
Waterfront condos in Toronto is the hottest part of the condo market right now. Look at the pdf link I posted in the real estate section and you will see waterfront condos have risen in average price of 24.5% from last year, highest of Toronto. South etobicoke has risen 17.3%, combine the two I guess you've got an area as stable as possible in Toronto.
 
Actually, I see little difference in a way. Brokers and agents get first dibs (inside sources) and then quickly flip the unbuilt units to the public at a profit.

These guys sat outside the sales centre for two days. Hardly the way to treat "insiders".
 
Unless your agent is in the loop, you don't have access.

Maybe so, and it can be a source of annoyance. But if so, and if you're intending to buy, why not employ an agent? Their commission would be paid by the developer, not the purchaser of the unit.

Sean, I think you're harsh on agents. I'm not an agent, but in my work I associate with them to some extent. The good ones, specifically including Brad Lamb (who I know slightly) work pretty hard. Admittedly a number of them don't work so hard, but I think these ones, on average, have a short shelf life.
 
Hardly the way to treat "insiders".

Perhaps this was a case of too many "insiders". If agents get first crack before opening to the public, than they are insiders. I understand why developers like to do this - less risk of customers coming back in the cooling off period, sell quickly and get more money up front.

As for Lamb, I was referring more to his ads when I suggested that he has 'no shame' - but having agents and brokers fight over each other to the point it makes the news, I don't think that's professional behaviour. It's more a commentary on how insane this market really is.
 

Back
Top